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The Fenton Files (view source)

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{{#seo:
|title=Ravencoin Wiki: Fenton Files
|keywords=Ravencoin Fenton files
|description=A page capturing some of the chat posts from Bruce Fenton and the core team developers on the community chat servers. Not comprehensive, but covers most of the more important discussions.
}}
 
This page aims to capture some of the thoughts from [https://twitter.com/brucefenton Bruce Fenton] and some of the core devs about [http://ravencoin.org RavenCoin], it's purpose and future. It's not comprehensive, just some of the interesting comments spotted on the community chats.
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== 12 Apr 11 Nov 2018 - Discord 2 == Economics of token creation - raven ends up being exactly the same issuance schedule as Bitcoin but with this perpetual drain on total supply in the form of whatever is burned. That-/ and the fact that it’s real 100% pow coins getting burned - that means RVN assets have sort of a neat double POW / a real asset (energy) has been burned to allow assets to exist  This gives them value. Not much, it’s tiny. But it does exist and that’s very different than other projects and very fascinating.
It's possible that this community has built the largest and strongest decentralized network anyone has ever built in such a short time.
Does anyone know another which compares? In terms of miners, nodes & other community metrics we have grown very fast. Very few coins have a stronger network -- both Bitcoin and Eth took years to reach what you built in less than 100 days. All 100% organic with no marketing and no central control. It's incredible. The future is bright.
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No one can beat the power of an open source community.
== 12 Apr 09 Nov 2018 - Telegram Discord 2 ==Bittrex emailed Talking your own book is exactly ethical and legal— especially if disclosed. It’s one of the purest form of ethical interaction in commerce.Some had to not only risk public reputation to support this coin but also give miners over $ of my capital to get the coins we own. So a miner could have dumped on us and I’d be the devs one conned.Someone being well known or ostk backing some dev is also not relevant. Oprah or Andreas could mention this coin for five seconds and instantly have more influence than paper authors. If Greg Maxwell came and asked someone "official" said something was a security risk, people would listen etc etc. that’s how a real open source project works. In a fair launch like this it’s almost impossible to have one party have the upper hand. That’s not marketing talk or something to pump ravens structure — that’s just the truth.Projects with a fair & open launch are literally a gift to the users — anything created from those projects is created by fair work to registerthe people. Problem is It’s absolutely incomparable to something that their raised money. Nothing wrong with raising money by the way process isn't set up but it’s utterly and completely different from giving away something for real free. It’s decentralized versus centralized. Permissioned versus free. It’s the very core of our industry. A foundational core of what open source / decentralized/ cypherpunk networks can be.  Now ravencoin may be stupid, a bad idea, it may fail, it may break, it may have unforeseen problems or it might just be outpaced by any of a dozen projectstrying to do the same. All those are potentially valid debates. —- but there’s just no reasonable way to say this project wasn’t fair. It’s provable on the blockchain that this was the most widely participated in and fastest growing network in history. One may think raven is a weak project but it’s fairness is completely undeniable— if someone doesn’t believe that then they either don’t understand or believe in crypto or they don’t fully understand how this project works. By the way:: we need to spread that far and wide. People should understand that this is their project — anyone can build on it  All this work we’ve done:: it’s free! All the code, the network — all that’s been invested — it all belongs to all members of the community. Anyone can use it and any one can benefit from this network.  Now for 500 RVN you can create a permanent asset backed by this absolutely massive amount of hashpower. That asset can do all kinds of cool stuff.  This is amazing. People don’t even see it yet. The structure is a key part. No leaders, no rulers, no centralized parties. That’s best practices. It’s harder.   ==17 Oct 2018 - Discord 2 == New folks be sure to  1) download the latest wallet - recognize that this is YOUR project - it’s open source and NOT controlled by any specific people - you can build on this and use it without permission! 2) start mining — with a gpu you can get some coins to use and reserve names with but even if not then it still helps the network  3) running a full mining node helps strengthen the coin and helps everyone
Their new coin process is more suited for scammy ICOs etc. For example they ask 4) download testnet NOW and mess with creating assets (!) this way you are ready for things like an NDA and a legal opinion that a coin is not a security :joy:. Obviously no one is going to sign something like that.
"Ravencoin" will sign whatever papers "Bitcoin" signed which is zero. No one has any authority 5) be ready to sign anything or enter into any agreement for Ravencoin or create real assets after mainnet launches on behalf of Ravencoin. Oct 31 - you only get one shot at each asset name
Ravencoin is doing just fine without exchanges. If we had 6) register names you can use (if you register a presalebrand name please consider giving it to the brand owner if they ask, developer or founder set aside or premine then there would be plenty of "officials" clamoring to unload their bags on a bigger exchange. There are no officials and there are no presale or similar holders. For this project right now exchanges offer very little value. helps the network)
This is open source so anyone can list it wherever they want 7) imho best early tokens will be game and experiments -- but there fun things — this is not still early stage and never experimental — will be any central source or official who will have any authority to do ready for things like negotiations, NDAs or agreements with any party including exchanges. securities once lots of testing in the live world — don’t take unwise financial risks - this is an experiment!- have fun and build something cool
Only individuals can act and act for themselves== 05 Oct 2018 - Discord 2 ==
== 8 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==Ideally lots The entire structure of companies and people will build on top ravencoin is VERY different from almost every other project — so it takes a lot of this protocollearningThanks to all who participate
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Partnerships the thing is that Ravencoin is a protocol not a company — this is why no partnerships -// not because they aren’t valuable but because they are not necessary Ravencoin doesn’t have some challenges partnerships with companies because 1) there’s no one to make such a partnership 2) the companies and devs wanting to build on this don’t need anyone’s permission - they can just build
There isn't This is a way good model — imho it’s the best model----Finding the right balance of how much to make partnerships between the idea called Ravencoin & any organization because there isn't any organization or person able talk about this project is hard----Software is allowed to make a partnership or speak on behalf of Ravencoin or sign agreements etcbe centralized.
It's a true open source project with no leaders When people say this isn’t it’s not because they are lying to pretend something — it’s because it’s accurate.----The main misunderstanding seems to be that ravencoin is controlled or central control. directed by Medici or tZero
This makes things like partnerships impossible in It’s just not the sense of how they are done by centralized coins. case
Ravencoin dev This isn’t some claim that someone is like Bitcoin: trying to make to comply with some rule — its the actual truth. Also there is no way law that this would be relevant for "Bitcoin" to sign — the idea that a partnership-- even Bitcoin Core (which isn't really company working on an open source project “makes it a thing) can't sign anything. security” is silly and it’s super insulting
In Ravencoin everyone owns Whether raven is centrally controlled or has corporate involvement / oversight / investment etc do not make it a security anyway — that entire line of thinking is based on faulty logic and everyone can act as an individual and sign what they want. not understanding now Ravencoin works or was issued
Ravencoin is a community project entirely built and controlled by the community the only "central" items are the name itself and all that represents is was released for free exactly like Litecoin — because it was never sold it was not an idea that the community generally is behind. offering
The bad news with this structure is Even if it had one person as a ceo and even if that one person worked for Medici it is weird, chaotic, hard would not matter —- still not a security----my time doesn’t belong to understand you. Usually when people write articles and hard to mention someone they get used to... especially quotes from them and check for people new accuracy first —- I do what I can to open sourcegive accurate info.
"No leaders" sounds like some sort of new age techno babble I waste hours on this and the only result is time wasted-- but it's true -- for a real decentralized open source project like this there really is no central structure that can enter into deals etc.
This type of structure is so unusual these days that most people who got into crypto within It doesn’t matter if something it centralized----That doesn’t make it a security----A coin being centralized or controlled by a company matters when the last 2 years have never seen company or coin raises money - a real open source projectlike Raven is completely different----there’s nothing whatsoever “hinging” on that — that’s crazy talk.
The good news is that this structure enables everyone an equal playing field in building. No one is working to enrich some select group who received awards reasonable or raised moneyknowledgeable person I’ve heard of considers RVN a security. Everyone who wants to participate can in whatever way If they want do then :shrug:‍♂️ Litecoin and Bitcoin would be as well. It’s insane
== 7 Apr 2018 - Telegram ==Tron:Two more devs added to the team this week. One more next week.. no — not at all.
== 5 Apr 2018 - Telegram ==Ridiculous
Bruce Fenton:The scheduled hard fork upgrade will be around 7-8 months This all stems from now -- depends how long coding and testing take and how many people contribute to development and testing. This hard fork will make the code changes which will allow the issuance of tokenswho don’t understand securities
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Bruce Fenton:There’s tons of info out thereNot sure why people assume a conspiracyThere’s no one “at the top” There’s no one “worried” This project It’s REALLLY key to understand that this is an open source so , decentralized project —- there is no one to pay for any marketing type of services. If you read the papers and believe in the project then you can build businesses on this person or people or drive your own economic interestscorporation running it
== 5 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==There is no conspiracy etcIt's great for people who want to do more -- if you are a hard working C++ dev you could end up having a massive effect on the code.People just work in their own interests
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Someone asked if >>>>Ravencoin could "support ___effort" is not an entity at all <<<<----What matters is whether ravencoin can and does work
The answer to every one of these questions is the same -- no because "Ravencoin" is not a centralized entity able to issue press releases or sign agreements or "support" anything --- it's just the name of the idea and code that a community is mining, developing or discussing.
Individual people are all that can act in a decentralized open source system -- nothing is fully decentralized but this is the aim we strive for.
Ravencoin has no ability to support actions or do anything because it's not an entity -- it's the name of an idea and code that the miners, developers and other community members generally agree on the purpose and structure of.
That sounds unusual or idealistic or phony to many - I get it, but it's actually the best way to develop
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The main code Crap projects have an interest in promoting “partnerships” and stuff — actual protocols don’t----''(In reference (I think) to Medici / Overstock / RVN)'' I’ve said 100 times that they aren’t related — even made videos about it----Rvn is on a great track better than ever -amazing - one huge area of opportunity the strongest projects ever----Because raven isn’t like that and isn’t a corporate project with “deals” and “agreements” / joint ventures and that kind of ico crap----Medici donates dev timeWhich is getting volunteer devs to work on second layer projects great
RSK would be an awesome onLN another But people assume much more of a corporate tie  Which is a shame----These don't need permission Not a gift from anyone MV  MV gifts some dev----Big difference----There’s an impression that tZero and raven fit together in some special way or work together or that one platform is being designed for someone to work on -/ devs can all communicatethe other
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We need RSK & Solidity devs -- ''(In reference to an article speculating on the connection between various OSTK / MV projects and RVN)'' thanks! I’m not a fan of the screen shot from discord — I’ve tried to make clear many times that the projects really are not related — that capability can be worked screen shot taken on alongside its own and out of the planned upgrade fork -- context of its convo seems like I’m winking and being coy or something imho Basically it would add a lot of capabilities was in reply to people who think the opposite: which is that tZero has nothing to this protocoldo with rvn and will never list it because they are competitors or something Neither is true
== 4 Apr 2018 It’s really not a corporate coin - Discord 2 ==/ existed before anyone at tZero heard of it and before I joined the board
Ravencoin's only marketing department is the communityThere’s no team of folks at tZero working on raven and it defiantly wasn’t designed by tZero or created for some tZero purpose---- competing against Yes but ostk owns a sea mess of scamcoins & ICOs w/ billions in ad budgets we stuff and there’s no major direction from ostk to any portfolio cos to support ravencoin----TZero and ravencoin are in an open source canoe canoe together. much less related than people assume
The protocol can't do press releases or similar BS --however it IS great to get the word out on what the tech & science is.
There isn't anything to sell- imho it's a big mistake to discuss price so early which is why I never do.
But it DOES make a lot of sense to share this info and explain it to people- more people will learn about it & contribute.
The metrics of this are entirely different from something like an ICO- with Ravencoin we don't share info to sell something but we can share for the sake of computer science.
The white paper isn't a marketing document designed to get money from people it's an actual real white paper: a technical scientific document open for peer review. The purpose of the document is to create discussion, generate criticism; identify security & functionality holes and to invite contributors. That's it. There is zero mention of price. Imho this is a much better way to build great tech. If you build great tech it may have value.
The diversity == 23 Sept 2018 - Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference ==Title: Global Ledgers: Scaling & strength of Capacity for Legacy Securities Systems in the community & dev is a good example Age of how open source can be more effective than corporate projects.Atomic Swaps
This protocol & idea is worth sharing Conference: Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference, Riga, Sep 22-- there's such a sea of scams and ICOs out there that a "white paper" seems like a sales document because the term has been stolen by scammers to be used for marketing documents. That's not ideal -- it reduces discussion of a technical computer science paper23
Perhaps one thing we can do is share Bruce talks about the concepts in this paper history of securities, it's current problems, and the main bullet points / ideas behind it -- this identifies a lot of use cases:block chain.
Game tokens for items you can move from game to game, securities tokens with dividends, message services etc etc Talk at: https://youtu.be/D2WXxgZ8h-- all of this is new tech creating new possibilities & solutions0?t=1h48m23s Slides at: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1043833386257854464. html
Sharing ideas gets even more great community members & contributors
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so the devs are a combination of people - most are in Utah because Medici a while back allowed employees to work on open source & this project became popularly locally in SLC -- so Tron Black @Tron (who came up with most of the tech ideas), Jesse Empey @RavencoinDev and @cade are in SLC -- most of the mining devs tend to live around NH because that's where we did the first meetups & announcements
Bruce Fenton (Discord): I didn’t mention Raven because as soon as you mention a specific product at certain events people stop listening and are closed minded Also so many people don’t even understand tokenized securities that it’s best to explain that first Once they understand this concept then Rvn makes more sense == 4 Apr 12 Sept 2018 - Telegram ==  
Bruce Fenton:
This project Because this is protocol development not something like an ICO scam  Ravencoin is a protocol — that’s it — it’s software There is NO ONE to “make announcements” or “sign partnerships” It’s open source so there - for all community members to contribute how they wish — this is no one to pay for any marketing type of services. a VERY VERY different model than centralized projects who did ICOs etc  If you read the papers are expecting centralized sales, marketing, announcements — that will never happen with this project and believe in people should know that  What the project then you does do is focus on building secure and useful software— anyone can build businesses on this or drive your own economic interestscontribute and decide if they want to run that software == 25 Aug 2018 - Discord 2 == consensus works in open source by open discussion over what code to run 
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Bruce Fenton:
The scheduled hard fork upgrade will be around 7-8 months from now -- depends how long coding and testing take and how many people contribute to development and testing.
This hard fork will make Everyone should contribute to the discussion There is no division between devs and non devs - there is no special authority who bestows the title “developer” - it’s just based on what code changes which will allow people run and who decides to run what they choose So we don’t say “just do what the issuance devs say” because there are no specific “devs” with any official role - just people who have done a lot of tokenswork and implemented the vision in the paper Anyone can be a dev Anyone on this page can write code And call themselves a dev No one has authority over any other We the users and holders have the authority by deciding what code to run So if you say “trust the devs” the first question one needs to ask is “who? / which devs” The way to flush that out is by discussion Open and free discussion There’s also no special authority for any other person - no ceo or founder or master node or author or dev has special power or authority ----
== 4 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==@everyone Volunteers wanted: Volunteer to serve as liaison to exchanges. Ravencoin But main point is receiving a LOT of requests and interest from exchanges. Unfortunately most request that an "official" representative contact them. Since this is decentralized and open source — there is no official and there is no one "authorized" to deal with exchanges. authority
If someone from the community wants to volunteer to serve this role they can. Should be knowledgeable about tech/ dev and exchanges and able to help exchanges with tech issues, integration etc.----
== 3 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==Note on exchanges: since this project is open source there is no central party We don’t want to speak with exchanges. ICOs and centralized corporate coins typically have marketers and others who serve this role. ever discourage discussion — especially over security related issues
Since this coin had no premine or set aside the economics are different as there is no insider looking to dump presale coins or something because they don't exist. ----
All exchange activity so far has been community driven. There this project is is no official party with an authority a group of people choosing to deal with exchanges-/ run code based on what they think Ravencoin means and what code is effective for that doesn't mean no one has the power --- it means everyone definition — every person has the power. This project belongs 100% right to the community-- it was created by a community and remains discuss what they think that. vision is or means
So anyone wishing to list this coin or do any other economic activity - go for it. The project literally belongs to you as much as anyone if you are reading this.
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Securities tokens with multiple share classes
Game items that can be removed from a game and printed onto a paper wallet The term hoi polloi is funny but it’s the antithesis of what open source is about — there is no “commoners” or higher class of people
Activist tokens which can be divisible and with built in messaging - so you can split a coin in to 10 and give it to 10 friends who will all receive whatever message There’s no special category called developers
The possibilities are endlessIt’s not ideal to say that people should defer to devs — that’s got a lot of issues I can explain —
== 2 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==Discord channels, like other aspects what if a new dev joins tomorrow and creates the code to change the supply to 5 trillion with an insta mine of Ravencoin, don't have a centralized authority or controller.1 trillion to himself and burning all addresses bringing in R5?
ICOsWould you say “stay in your lane, scamdon’t discuss forks”? Of course not -coins and centralized corporate coins have controlled and managed chat channels run by paid marketing employees. it’s not what the coin is
Ravencoin is different. It's not run by a central team or person who tells people what It’s super relevant and key to discuss things like hard forks — any hard fork changes the consensus mechanism and the rules which everyone on the network previously agreed to say or so.
Anyone can set up So it’s really a chat, there is no "official" anything other than the Git big responsibility for every user to know and website. care what all code changes are
If a majority of the community prefers one admin / mod style they can migrate to any banned. If various groups from who have competing ideas or preferences then multiple groups can form.
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Many people are so used to centralized scam coins that they don't know what to think when they see a real open source coin.
The internet is messy. The opposite of control is chaos. So some chaos is inevitable. But it doesn't affect the protocol in any way.There’s also a HUGE difference between non technical people discussing technical matters and overall DESIGN matters 
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This You won’t see me talking specific code almost ever — it’s not my area of expertise  But overall economics, functionality and design is as intendedan area of expertise I have for this coin — Andy one can develop expertise and have opinions on the direction — anyone can choose to listen or not - and run what they want based on a combo of vision and capabilities and functions with the specific code 
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It will all even out and work wellWell this is why consensus is so important Just something to plan for — for the future 
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Have faith in  We can all continually improve the wisdom quality of crowdsreview of code changes Bitcoin Bitcoin system has worked best and that’s what Ravencoin is developed after 
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Does Bitcoin have an official chat?has made many leaps forward on this - there are lots of contributors and discussions 
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It's hard to have no @name — well one in charge thing is that there isn’t and shouldn’t be much of a line between “devs” and seems chaotic to not have control. Many corporate coins have antiseptic “the community” —- devs ARE the community and controlled chats which regularly censor criticism.the community is devs in this project — there is no separate wall  
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the only thing official is the code and website.
The roadmap and white paper is an implementation that You don’t need to just “speak with a Bitcoin dev” you can BE a group Bitcoin dev by simply submitting code Secret sauce of devs supports -Bitcoin is no leaders No authority Consensus Same with Ravencoin- 
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Yes The system is working well as it is — I don’t see any problems at all — just giving thoughts on best practices and ideas for the future — there are several things we learned from this hard fork which can be improved on next time -- but KYC/ AML isn't part of the protocolmainly around communicating 
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Ravencoin will allow easy creation of assets such as tokensThere’s some bad habits from ICOS where people come in to protocol projects looking for leaders or thinking a central authority makes all decisions 
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Anyone can post a new ANNIt’s wise to plan for contentious forks 
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There's no "core" reallyIt’s wise to plan for contentious forks 
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you seem to think I And have some special powers -- it's your coin as much as it is mjne.healthy debate over all changes 
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Well if so then that's even more reason to not do it. :smiley: the "core team" is anyone who wants to be.
This isnForks also present a risk — every code change presents a possibility of unforeseen consequences == 14 Aug 2018 - Telegram == Chatturga:The v2.0.3 binaries are available to download on the ravencoin github. Assuming that everything continues to run smoothly, and no significant bugs need to be addressed, this is the version that will activate DGW and BIP9/RIP2 consensus voting for the asset layer. The devs recommend updating to this version soon (before block 338778), with a particular emphasis toward pool owners and exchanges. I't hand waiving ll reach out to those people at the end of the day since the devs want to do a bit more testing. https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/releases/tag/v2.0.3 == 05 Aug 2018 -- itTelegram =='' Tron '' Tron:Ravencoin is a protocol platform for assets and will work with anybody's infrastructure. Additional requirements can always be added by exchanges, or issuers, but are not native to the structure of a real decentralized open source projectasset protocol.
There are no leaders or authorities. Only merit and individuals choosing who to follow and what code to run
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I choose Tron:You’re absolutely right. We are watching the issue closely. To put it in perspective though, our block times have been roughly 1.5x the speed of BTC during the worst of it. We have already switched to DGW on testnet and Ravencoin is slated to move to support this project because DGW on mainnet at the end of October. Our primary concern is not the code, that’s already done. Our primary concern is not allowing the chain to split. A chain split would cause far more damage and confusion than 5 minute blocks. The diff swings are a result of being profitable, then not, then profitable again, in an undamped oscillation. DGW will fix it, but it's decentralizedrequires a hard fork where everyone must upgrade the software. This carries some risk. 
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There are 1000 corporate coins who have very neat and clean comms channelsTron: everyone agreesx16r is the hashing algorithm, a few people decide on a message and is different than the people difficulty adjustment algorithm. It will still be x16r. The difficulty adjustment tries to make it so it is 1 minute blocks no matter how many cpus/gpus are fed mining. Currently it adjusts by looking back 2016 blocks and making a percentage adjustment to bring it inline. There is a line4x limit, which we are close to hitting. It isn’t good but it shouldn’t get much worse. 
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Anyone can create these toolsTron:RVN will still be RVN. The problem is that anyone that doesn’t upgrade when the algo switches over, will be on a different chain. Imagine the problems if CryptoBridge doesn’t upgrade, or Cryptopia, etc. and they have a different view. A hard fork is just a software upgrade, but it is really important that certain nodes upgrade. We have a managed upgrade already scheduled for the end of Oct that lets everyone decide on their own whether to upgrade and when enough mining nodes have upgraded, it seamlessly switches over at a set percentage. 
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There is no central authority over Bitcoin commsIt's impossibleTron:No, shorter block times aren’t the problem. Rentable hashpower, and multipools which auto-redirect hashpower to the most profitable coin makes it more difficult to calibrate. That’s what changed. 
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Ravencoin Tron:The longest chain is YOUR cointhe winner. It We just need to make sure it is crystal clear which one that is the people's coin. A real open source If we have 1/2 mining power on one chain and 1/2 on another, it gets murky. If that ever happens, just don’t transfer RVN during that time and decentralized projectyou’ll be fine. And, if you’re mining, make sure you’re on the longest chain. 
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The decentralized nature enables this coin to do WAY more than a centralized corporate coin or ICO can do.
Look at the results!!Tron:DGW will go a long way towards that. We actually want increased hashing, we just don’t want it coming and going in multi-day intervals.
Look what you badasses have built in less than 3 months!---- Tron:I don’t think miners using a pool will need to change anything. Just make sure the pool you’re using has upgraded whenever the software is upgraded. Make sure you’re using the latest version to view/store/transfer your RVN.
NO ONE can duplicate this. IBM has spent $4.5 billion on its internal blockchain and we beat them in EVERY metric that matters: better code, stronger network, bigger community etc etc.----
Why? Because people can smell authenticity Tron:My understanding is that there was a mile a wayPull Request for RVN on Ledger. Then I don’t know if/when that the hundreds of scam coins don't actually belong to them. This coin doeswill make it into production.
Your efforts in Ravencoin are building what you wish - the strength of this project will not depend on 20 marketers or lawyers in some ivory tower office but the efforts of the thousands of people who've put in time, resources and sweat to build this this. ---
With this grassroots decentralization we have some drawbacks but overall massive advantagesTron:Yes, unix (linux), Mac, and Windows. We need to make sure the client cross-compiles for all of them.
This is why we will prevail.
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We are likely the fastest growing network in history of cryptoTron:Yeah, there were some awful asset names. We are also I imagine that some of the web explorers and asset marketplaces will want to run names through a top 10 of fairly mined coins in 3 monthsfilter.Decentralization works.
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The wisdom Tron:There’s going to be lots of this crowd is stronger than any 100 peopleinteresting opportunities. I think someone will build a marketplace for asset names. 
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Together we can do amazing thingsTron:There’s really only one chain. Wish not for leaders or controlThe problem is that when you change the diff algo, then the version of the software using the old algo sees only old algo blocks as valid, and software using the algo only sees new algo blocks as valid. Instead make The “real” one SHOULD be the changes new algo chain, but there’s no BOSS that says you want can’t run older software. So it is really up the users to upgrade and ask all agree to use the newer software. I can’t compel anyone to upgrade, but it would make economic sense for helpeveryone to use the new software. We can write software that doesn’t change the algorithm until it sees that most miners have upgraded because we can put a version number in the blocks and count the mined blocks. That’s what BIP9 does — Google it if you’re interested in how it works. 
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No one has any power that you don't also haveWe’re hiring like crazy. Most of our hires are for tZero, Medici, and Bitsy. If you’re a great developer, you want something to happen don't wait for permissionshould apply. You have it. Just do itBruce is in NH and he visits Utah and we visit him in NH.  
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Tuesday will be a Roadmap and an expanded paper based on a combo of Tron:Yes. I don’t know how trademark rules would apply. I fought two trademark battles where I felt I was in the original Medium article right. I won one, and folded the roadmapother against a giant “perfect” word processing company. 
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there are drawbacks to a decentralized system like this -- Tron:There is support for that. I’m not in favor of that, in general, but advantages as wellit did make sense for our asset hard fork. No one does or should have control 
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some advantages Ravencoin will have to token issuers over Eth:
- more secure chainTron:I hope not, because I think it would devalue RVN, but it is certainly a possibility. Interestingly enough, anyone who had RVN before that fork would have RVN and RVC, but I still think it would would be a net negative overall.
- more censorship resistant ---
Tron:Sometimes it is cheaper to mine, and sometimes it is cheaper to buy. Right now it is cheaper to buy — until the diff adjusts. I wrote a paper on how the two are interlinked. https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoin- more decentralized value-and-mining-difficulty
- simpler / more elegant ---
Tron:Bruce and I agree that it doesn’t need shilling. Eventually, we’ll need to let more people know it exists and that it is a platform they can build on, but that isn’t even true until the end of October when assets activate on mainnet. - native in the protocol --- Tron:If there’s a Raven Classic, it probably wont have asset support.
- will allow dividends ---
Tron:Yes, we would like RVN to continue to be viable cash. We hope it gets used for rewards (paying all holders of your token in RVN), and for on- will allow messagingchain atomic swaps (paying for assets with RVN where the trade happens all at once).
It's the next gen
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Ravencoin plans to integrate RSK --
Advantage is shorter block time and that it's native Tron:I’m not 100% sure. It seems like we’re in a bear market — similar to the protocol 2014-- but for smart contracts RSK will eneable solidity 2015. Some of it is being sold to work on buy into RVN, EOS, and ADA, or into ICOs which are still going strong outside the Ravencoin blockchainUS. 
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ASIC resistance and Tron:I agree - kinda dumb. It is a wider and more fair distribution is another advantage of Ravencoincompletely arbitrary line. Enforce rules against outright fraud, but let everyone invest their money any way they choose.
By this time period in Bitcoin's history the coin had less than a dozen miners. We have thousands
This is one of the most widely distributed coins if not THE most
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the protocol won't be ready to issue tokens on for 7-8 months or so. But the network is already very strong and will have a lot of appeal
Securities tokens are one of the key use cases and reasons Ravencoin was created
Securities tokens are my main focusTron:I think there will be sites listing assets for sale. We’ve put “forsale” and “forsale_price” keys in the metadata spec for this reason. Brokers could scan the chain and the meta data to build a website for exchanging asset names.
I think everything will be tokenized
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I was a stockbroker for almost 20 years so have been interested in securities tokens since I came into Bitcoin 6 years agoTron:https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/master/assets/asset_metadata_spec.md 
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Especially interesting is small companies who can't now go public on old markets but will be able to using Ravencoin
And also conventional asset managementTron:I will share the scripts to allow anyone to register any names they want. I’m excited to see what gets registered. 
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Many exciting areasTron:Sending assets will require a small RVN fee. I’d love to get rid of the fee, but it opens up too many attacks that don’t cost anything. 
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SEC regs are misunderstood by almost Tron:It’s been wonderful chatting with all of you. Thanks for your support of RVN. I’m working on some python scripts that’ll let you create batches of assets (with associated meta data) from a Google spreadsheet or csv. I’ll make them available next week for everyone in the spaceto play with. It’ll make it easier for anyone wanting to register multiple assets.  == 03 Aug 2018 - Telegram == ''Some interesting posts from tron on telegram'' Tron:http://raven-blockchain.info/ext/getmoneysupply is stalled on an old block. Needs to be switched to: https://ravencoin.network/api/supply 
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Things like lawyers '' referring to testnet launch''Tron:Thanks. will We had a few glitches that we're fixing, but overall it seems to be the market not part of the protocolperforming as expected. 
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Ravencoin opens up not just new doors to securities but entirely new types Tron:Brace yourself. The limits of aligning interestsfree speech are being tested. For example co-opsFREEDOM!!! 
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Ravencoin will enable users Tron:In the qt, go to issue STOsHelp->Debug, then the console tab, and type listassets 
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Not a smart contract but native to the protocolTron:I'd be interested in knowing which ones it doesn't fulfill. It is portable, fungible, divisible, durable, transferable, and limited. USD is 5 of those 6. 
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Sure real estate or any asset anyone wants
To issue
Game currencyTron:Michael Any wallet, explorer, exhange, etc. can use the .png. It likely will not be built into the reference client because we don't want to be downloading and showing the types of images that could be added. SecuritiesIf you've looked at the list of assets created on testnet, you'll understand our concern.
Also unique assets
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yes with any offering issuers will still need a legal team and offering management '' referring to facilitating adoption''Tron:Adoption - ease of use, cross platform (not from the protocol but the marketWindows, Mac, Linux, iOs, Android), and secure. 
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not a SDK but native abilities within Tron:We hope assets will be tradable on decentralized exchanges. I think this will happen organically as soon as some real projects are using the protocol itselftokens. 
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So user will be able to issue:
100,000 token shares of Janes Startup
17 Platinum Swords Tron:Medici has investments in about 14 different companies. I expect some of Powerthem will be able to use RVN, but RVN is not being developed in support of any particular project. It has larger ambitions to be a platform for asset issuance with multi-OS support and much easier to use than ERC20.
1 Mona Lisa Token----Tron:Verhoven RVN should be a currency. We want it to have a value because phase 3 will allow paying token holders in RVN. Imagine a project that's profitable where the early supporters are rewarded (with RVN) based on the percentage of tokens they hold.
Etc
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thatTron:I's exactly something my company is working onm not allowed to talk about tZero stuff.Chainstone Labs plans to be one of the first users of Ravencoin
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You won't get dividends for holding rvnTron:I had experience with Counterparty, Mastercoin, colored coins, and open assets which had similar capabilities on top of Bitcoin. It will was secure, but clunky because some bitcoin had to be paid by token issuers sent with every asset, and the fees became prohibitively high last year. We've been able to token holdersfix these issues because we can make adjustments that the core Bitcoin developers can't make. 
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Rvn willl be burned Tron:The ideas behind the project and using the blockchain for users to issue or tokenizing assets came from Bruce Fenton, as well as the project name tokensand logo. 
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The assets will be Tron:I'm in talks with the leadership and developers on that project. We've agreed that Ravencoin is great once they're tokenizing the rvn chainland. First stages are about recording ownership and Ravencoin doesn't fit that use case as well. 
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The assets will be using Ravencoin chain as rails<name removed> Tron:I founded Atlantic Financial've talked to lots of companies about their projects on RVN. Two game companies, one tokenized real-estate company, and a Registered Investment advisor and also own chainstone labsVC company that wants to do tokenized Reg A+ offerings.And Satoshi Roundtable
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Right holders have to trust each issuer if they claim there is Tron:I created a crypto accounting system called CoinCPA -- look for the podcasts from 2014. I was an asset backing itearly employee of Tzero. I'm a Tzero advisor. I worked for crypto company out of Hong Kong. I've helped Spera, and Bitsy which are portfolio companies of Medici Ventures. 
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No no
Only for physical assets
Real worldTron:I do have some coins. If anything bad happens to the Ravencoin chain, it will affect me personally. 
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Virtual items like digital currency, utility Tron:It's exciting. I'm a huge fan of everything that's happening in the crypto space. I think the Ravencoin community is the best! I feel honored and game currency or items would stay digitalblessed to be a part of the project. I really want it to succeed. 
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Providers of legal '' in reference to some significant purchases seen recently on cb ''Tron:I can say for certain it isn't me. It really don't think it's Patrick. I don't think it's Bruce, but I don't know that. ==31 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Reminder: careful using testnet and KYC services willl be able wallets etc - someone WILL lose money because they get confused, send real coins to easily integrate with rvnthe wrong place only use if you know what you are doing :smiley: 
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Ravencoin doesn't compete with Polymath I propose that we as a community voluntarily white hat any major names like Google - / hopefully if the real Google wants to use it's a separate type the community member will give it to them at cost — but that’s optional of thingcourse
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Poly has said they are chain agnostic so can use rvnThere isn’t any way to pre-reserve or verify names
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Unlike Eth, Ravencoin was specifically built for the purpose of issuing tokensBut we can cooperate to register good ones
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Using RSK solidly Ravencoin will be able to do everything Eth can doNo first dibs :smiley:
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the published policy is to change the algo to break asics if they are createdWhite hats racing against squatters 
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no asics DECREASE Testnet will give people a chance to see what has been built and will also allow more contributors to easily contribute and do security testing because they increase centralizationthe code is published and everyone can be on the same page  Testnet also allows 2nd and third layer developers to see how the protocol works and build and test apps  Since the network was built first with ravencoin we already have a massive head start when mainnet is launched (versus if the network genesis and the asset layer were launched together) This means that since racencoin already has tons of users, community members and interested parties the usability of the asset layer capabilities increases  There are a lot of us in the community who can test and build on this protocol  So - when mainnet launches :rocket: there will be a lot of people ready to jumpstart that network and build on it  I predict a lot of asset names reserved right away (it will be like domain registration races / land grab) When mainnet is launched people will be able to immediately create real assets which will be verified by the ravencoin blockchain  == 29 July 2018 - Discord 2 == We had mini raven sculptures hidden all around the Satoshi Roundtable == 14 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Ravencoin as a real open source & fair launched project will never have the captive marketing budget of an ICO — but those projects will never have the tech depth or scalability that the Ravencoin protocol has. 
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Asics make mining less distributedIcos as we know them will not be as big as securities tokens == 12 July 2018 - Discord 2 == The dlr is a different thing - it’s a specific tool to help crypto interface with existing wall st touting systems  Aside from this Tzero is also an exchange which will trade security tokens ==11 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Just one solid exchange would be very relevant 
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actually they make a 51% attack easier because asics tend to concentrate mining in the hands of a small number of giant miners with data centers
Bitcoin can be 51% attacked by compromising 4 people Rvn took a path more like BTC or so. Ravencoin you'd need to compromise an army of Ravens with their gpusltc
<name removed> users acquire rvn and use that to create assets or pay dividend
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once someone issues a token they can do what they want with it: give it away, sell it, run I think an ICO or STO, put it in a game or whatever they chooseexchange will happen 
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To be clear: the Ravencoin protocol will support RSK / solidity but ALSO have a native capability built in which makes it easier for many use cases
And has more capabilities like messaging and dividendsThere actually is a lot of raven marketing - it’s all pretty much done by volunteer community members bits be trippin etc 
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<name removed> once someone issues a token they can do what they want with it: give it away, sell it, run an ICO or STO, put it in a game or whatever they choose
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To be clear: the Ravencoin protocol will support RSK / solidity but ALSO have a native capability built in which makes it easier for many use cases
And I think Tzero hasn’t announced exactly how they will make listing decisions — there will be lots of factors  Rvn could be appealing to any exchange because it has high interest and volume and is not a security and also its code base is based on Bitcoin so well understood  Rvn is an especially natural fit for exchanges focusing on securities tokens == 11 July 2018 - Discord 2 == From @Chatturga Hello, everyone. I bring exciting news about the asset layer! Assuming that everything goes smoothly, the binaries to test the asset layer on testnet will be available for download on July 30th. Additionally, the target date for mainnet release has been tentatively set for October 31st. These dates give the community time to find any issues and for PR's to be processed - with October 31st also being the 1 year anniversary of the first Medium article about Ravencoin. == 3 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Have I mentioned that this is Game of Thrones? GAME OF THRONES! This space is very treacherous and risky - there is a ton of uncertainty. A coin claiming they will “beat Bitcoin” is not credible — neither is it credible to say Bitcoin has a 100% chance of being both global money and the rails for all tokens with zero exceptions. There are a few possible outcomes: 1) Bitcoin becomes the only chain, all projects become sidechains on Bitcoin - RVN and ALL other coins/ projects die completely (possible but unlikely / not certain enough to bet on 100%) 2) Bitcoin dies, other coin or coins / projects serve that need (unlikely)  3) Bitcoin becomes important money and important chain for tokens but other projects survive and serve large or niche markets 3a Raven is one of these survivors 3b it isn’t (This is the most likely scenario imho of the 3 — even if I felt an 80% chance of option 1 then it would still be prudent to support other coins in case BTC fails or in case any can develop a niche which serves one area better than BTC) ----- So if option 3 occurred and raven survived then it could be used in even a “small” niche of the possibly deca trillion dollar token market and end up being very important. Cross chain atomic swaps and lots of other things will make cooperation between projects make sense — LTC is a good example - the project has never tried to be at odds with Bitcoin. Bitcoin was always going to do tokens — that a HQ co like Blockstream is working on this is exciting and validated the entire idea.Just a month ago all the best “experts” were saying that tokens couldn’t be put on Bitcoin or a fork of Bitcoin — this is specifically why I always used Bitcoin not raven in the periscope video examples on security tokens. When we did these demos everyone laughed — well now the smartest devs in the space are doing what we’ve been working on for a while as well (Blockstream has worked on this a long time too) It will be great if both Bitcoin and Raven serve markets in tokens successfully - there are certainly plenty of ways that can work — I also think other projects like ada and eos will have a good chance of surviving and several platforms will thrive for different reasons. Anyway — being that this is Game of Thrones and in the grand timeline of global money and blockchains - we are early in season 1 ... it’s a good time to be supportive of all projects and focus on building great tech rather than “beating” someone.Also — most importantly — Blockstream is NOT a competitor of Raven - Blockstream is a company with investors and some top devs and products etc. - Ravencoin is an idea and some code / software which generates a scare digital asset. So back to the Blockstream announcement  ...If this is Game of Thrones here we are over at Raven Tower okay — and Adam Back is like the Maester from Fort Block — he just moved in and says he wants to fight white walkers with the weapon he’s been working on — Okay I could go on :joy:... But seriously, Blockstream is not an enemy to this project - that’s absurd - they are awesome people and high quality cypherpunks and some of the smartest people in the industry.  The “competitor” isn’t Blockstream it’s Bitcoin (for tokens!) — obviously Bitcoin is the strongest chain and it’s very unlikely raven would replace it — that was never the goal, point or idea (at least from my personal POV or imho)- the better competitor is ETH who actually has serious weaknesses.  Goal as I’ve always personally seen it is to work on this specific use case on a PROTOCOL level to see if it develops advantages overall — it has had some since day one —  Just build good stuff and keep focusing  If you want to attack someone ETH is a better target but even those folks are pretty cool — better to hope the rising tide lifts all boats!! ----- Yeah no one should care so much what I say — centralized authorities are bad  I love this coin and project and community — this is why I’ve given what I think is a fair share of free work to the project — but my activity shouldn’t be so relevant (and neither should anyone else’s) ----- I don’t see it as competition and even if so it would be silly to claim this chain is stronger than Bitcoin - imho far smarter way to look at things is the way LTC and to a lesser extent cardano does: we are all in the same ecosystem ----- I’ve supported raven as best I can and will continue to — I’ve done about 15 speeches and a hundred tweets and 12 interviews and I’ve received death threats and nearly daily criticisms and accusations of being a scammer / pumper because of being such a vocal supporter — I’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of my own money on support of raven — I’ve taken time from my family to fly to meet devs and I’ve spent hundreds of hours on everything from writing and research to design to chatting in forums or answering questions. I receive zero pay and zero special coins or bonus for any work or commentary I do on Raven —Every hour I spend on Raven is uncompensated and I have to skip other paying work to do -  If people think it’s not enough or can do better then by all means hopefully they can step up and be spokespeople also — I offered to help others do so a while ago & will make more ppt etc when I can ----- Asset layer test net should be out in July ----- Blockstream moving into this is great news for the overall ecosystem ----- It’s a $40 trillion market ----- Personally I see it as very different ----- Raven is open sourceIf you want to compete with a company you canOr use the code and software how you choose == 2nd July 2018 - Discord 2 == I have over 150,000 social media followers and announced Raven to over 2000 conference attendees at crypto conferences including Miami BTC and Texas Bitcoin Conference It was posted by many others aside from me and retweeted and reposted by many others  We had 4500 miners within a week and the network grew so fast that solo mining and cpu rigs were obsolete within two weeks To claim that no one was on the network and that some secret miner dominated the mining is preposterous and easily provably false  In the very earliest days the network was widely distributed — the three largest miners (Overstock / Medici and three parties I don’t know who they are) each never reached more capabilities like messaging than 10-15% of hash power —- and that was only for a short few weeks or so in the earlier days  Since then the math can easily show that for anyone to have significant network power they would have to spend a significant amount on GPU rigs — the math & metrics behind this are trivial for anyone with a basic understanding of mining and crypto  It is simply impossible to have had a special advantage on the launch - all anyone could have possibly done is what early miners did:: take a big risk on early equipment-/  No one had any advantage whatsoever and dividendsthere was absolutely no premine or set aside or insta mine at all  This is what is great about this tech - a blockchain is provableI guess at the ravencoin annual meeting we can ask early miners to raise hands ----- Blockstream is a company — raven is a protocol We are not competing with Blockstream
== Older Posts ==
 
[[Fenton Files: April 2018 - June 2018]]
 
[[Fenton Files: start - March 2018]]
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