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The Fenton Files (view source)

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{{#seo:
|title=Ravencoin Wiki: Fenton Files
|keywords=Ravencoin Fenton files
|description=A page capturing some of the chat posts from Bruce Fenton and the core team developers on the community chat servers. Not comprehensive, but covers most of the more important discussions.
}}
 
This page aims to capture some of the thoughts from [https://twitter.com/brucefenton Bruce Fenton] and some of the core devs about [http://ravencoin.org RavenCoin], it's purpose and future. It's not comprehensive, just some of the interesting comments spotted on the community chats.
 
Discord 1 refers to the original discord which has since been deleted by it's owner. Discord 2 refers to the 2nd discord that was set up by the community. Links on [[community]] page.
__TOC__
== 19 Mar 11 Nov 2018 - Discord 2 ==Well there will be two types Economics of token creation - raven ends up being exactly the same issuance schedule as Bitcoin but with this perpetual drain on total supply in the form of whatever is burned. That-/ and the fact that it’s real 100% pow coins getting burned - that means RVN assets have sort of a neat double POW / a real asset (energy) has been burned to allow assets to exist  This gives them value. Not much, it’s tiny. But it does exist and that’s very different than other projects and very fascinating.   ==09 Nov 2018 -Discord 2 == Talking your own book is exactly ethical and legal— especially if disclosed. It’s one of the purest form of ethical interaction in commerce.Some had to not only risk public reputation to support this coin but also give miners over $ of my capital to get the coins we own. So a miner could have dumped on us and I’d be the one conned.Someone being well known or ostk backing some dev is also not relevant. Oprah or Andreas could mention this coin for five seconds and instantly have more influence than paper authors. If Greg Maxwell came and said something was a security risk, people would listen etc etc. that’s how a real open source project works. In a fair launch like this it’s almost impossible to have one party have the upper hand. That’s not marketing talk or something to pump ravens structure — that’s just the truth.Projects with a fair & open launch are literally a gift to the users — anything created from those projects is created by fair work to the people. It’s absolutely incomparable to something that raised money. Nothing wrong with raising money by the way but it’s utterly and completely different from giving away something for free. It’s decentralized versus centralized. Permissioned versus free. It’s the very core of our industry. A foundational core of what open source / decentralized/ cypherpunk networks can be.  Now ravencoin may be stupid, a bad idea, it may fail, it may break, it may have unforeseen problems or it might just be outpaced by any of a dozen projects trying to do the same. All those are potentially valid debates. —- but there’s just no reasonable way to say this project wasn’t fair. It’s provable on the blockchain that this was the most widely participated in and fastest growing network in history. One may think raven is a token weak project but it’s fairness is completely undeniable— if someone doesn’t believe that then they either don’t understand or believe in crypto or they don’t fully understand how this project works. By the way:: we need to spread that far and wide. People should understand that this is their project — anyone can build on it  All this work we’ve done:: it’s free! All the code, the network — all that’s been invested — it all belongs to all members of the community. Anyone can use it and any one can benefit from this network.  Now for 500 RVN you can create a permanent asset backed by this absolutely massive amount of hashpower. That asset can do all kinds of cool stuff.  This is amazing. People don’t even see it yet. The structure is a key part. No leaders, no rulers, no centralized parties. That’s best practices. It’s harder.   ==17 Oct 2018 - Discord 2 == New folks be sure to  1) download the latest wallet - recognize that this is YOUR project - it’s open source and NOT controlled by any specific people - you can build on this and use it without permission! 2) start mining — with a gpu you can get some coins to use and reserve names with but even if not then it still helps the network  3) running a full mining node helps strengthen the coin which and helps everyone  4) download testnet NOW and mess with creating assets (!) this way you are ready for:  5) be ready to create real assets after mainnet launches on Oct 31 - you only get one shot at each asset name 6) register names you can use (if you register a brand name please consider giving it to the brand owner if they ask, this helps the network) 7) imho best early tokens will have be game and experiments - fun things — this is still early stage and experimental — will be ready for things like securities once lots of fungible units testing in the live world — don’t take unwise financial risks -this is an experiment!- have fun and build something cool == 05 Oct 2018 - Discord 2 == The entire structure of ravencoin is VERY different from almost every other project — so it takes a lot of learningThanks to all who participate----the thing is that Ravencoin is a protocol not a company — this is why no partnerships -// not because they aren’t valuable but because they are not necessary Ravencoin doesn’t have partnerships with companies because 1) there’s no one to make such a partnership 2 ) the companies and devs wanting to build on this don’t need anyone’s permission - they can just build  This is a good model — imho it’s the best model----Finding the right balance of how much to talk about this project is hard----Software is allowed to be centralized. When people say this isn’t it’s not because they are lying to pretend something — it’s because it’s accurate.----The main misunderstanding seems to be that ravencoin is controlled or directed by Medici or tZero  It’s just not the case  This isn’t some claim that someone is trying to make to comply with some rule — its the actual truth. Also there is no law that this would be relevant for — the idea that a company working on an open source project “makes it a trillion security” is silly and it’s super insulting Whether raven is centrally controlled or more unitshas corporate involvement / oversight / investment etc do not make it a security anyway — that entire line of thinking is based on faulty logic and not understanding now Ravencoin works or was issued  Ravencoin was released for free exactly like Litecoin — because it was never sold it was not an offering Even if it had one person as a ceo and even if that one person worked for Medici it would not matter —- still not a security----my time doesn’t belong to you. Usually when people write articles and mention someone they get quotes from them and check for accuracy first —- I do what I can to give accurate info. I waste hours on this and the only result is time wasted----
These can be divided and sharedIt doesn’t matter if something it centralized----That doesn’t make it a security----A coin being centralized or controlled by a company matters when the company or coin raises money - a project like Raven is completely different----there’s nothing whatsoever “hinging” on that — that’s crazy talk.
There will also be a unique token type which will represent a one No reasonable or knowledgeable person I’ve heard of considers RVN a kind assetsecurity. --- If you make it divisible it becomes more like the first type of assetthey do then :shrug:‍♂️ Litecoin and Bitcoin would be as well.-----So using the Ravencoin protocol you can issue:10000 Almscoin It’s insane
10 Family coin... no — not at all.
1 Art token Ridiculous
10 game tokens called JThis all stems from people who don’t understand securities----There’s tons of info out thereNot sure why people assume a conspiracyThere’s no one “at the top” There’s no one “worried”
1 Game token called #Platinum_Sword335It’s REALLLY key to understand that this is an open source, decentralized project —- there is no person or people or corporation running it
32 Game tokens called SuperArmorThere is no conspiracy etcPeople just work in their own interests---->>>>Ravencoin is not an entity at all <<<<----What matters is whether ravencoin can and does work
5,600,000 tokens called IBM Class A preferred
Etc
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''(Slightly edited due to what I think was a discord typo - you've got the date Crap projects have an interest in promoting “partnerships” and can search discord if you want the original :) )''If Raven has any value it would get it from 1) people wanting to use the network 2) because RVN is needed to be provably burned to use any of these features 3) because the protocol will allow RVN to be sent to the holders of OTHER tokens as a dividend or gift 4) cash, exchange or any other uses anyone comes up with for thisstuff — actual protocols don’t
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no, 1 ''(In reference (I think) to Medici / Overstock / RVN won)'t relate to the sword or IBM Stock or anything anyone else puts on the chain -- ' I’ve said 100 times that value (if any) will be determined by the supply & demand of whatever asset is put on the chain and its issuerthey aren’t related — even made videos about it
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Raven will need to be burned if someone wants to use Rvn is better than ever - amazing - one of the protocol to make an assetstrongest projects ever
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A small amountBecause raven isn’t like that and isn’t a corporate project with “deals” and “agreements” / joint ventures and that kind of ico crap
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no, some RVN will be needed to CREATE an asset but once it's created its value Medici donates dev timeWhich is whatever you make great  But people assume much more of it. Joe could make an asset representing his beer can collection or Google could issue an asset for preferred stock worth $20 billion - all depends on the issuera corporate tie  Which is a shame
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We'd imagine that assets / tokens using the Ravencoin chain will vary greatlyNot a gift from MV  MV gifts some dev
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yes to create an asset a small amount is burnedBig difference
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It's not secret. smiley we all want to be transparent There’s an impression that tZero and get info out there -- the roadmap raven fit together in some special way or work together or that one platform is done -- reason being designed for delay is mainly just that we want to rollout thoughtfully and be careful of duplicating efforts etc.the other
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it depends how you track it -Coinmarketcap doesn't acknowledge burned coins afaik but these definitely affect outstanding supply'(In reference to an article speculating on the connection between various OSTK / MV projects and RVN)'' thanks! I’m not a fan of the screen shot from discord — I’ve tried to make clear many times that the projects really are not related — that screen shot taken on its own and out of the context of its convo seems like I’m winking and being coy or something imho If Basically it was in reply to people who think the project snd process opposite: which is successful that tZero has nothing to do with rvn and popular we could see will never list it because they are competitors or something Neither is true  It’s really not a material number corporate coin -/ existed before anyone at tZero heard of it and before I joined the board  There’s no team of coins burnedfolks at tZero working on raven and it defiantly wasn’t designed by tZero or created for some tZero purpose
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the possible use cases are extensive Yes but ostk owns a mess of stuff and there’s no major direction from games and hobbies ostk to securities tokens any portfolio cos to artsupport ravencoin
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TZero and ravencoin are much less related than people assume      == 23 Sept 2018 - Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference ==Title: Global Ledgers: Scaling & Capacity for sure!! The original plan Legacy Securities Systems in the Age of Atomic Swaps Conference: Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference, Riga, Sep 22-23 Bruce talks about the history of securities, it's current problems, and block chain.  Talk at: https://youtu.be/D2WXxgZ8h-0?t=1h48m23s Slides at: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/ use case for Ravencoin was focused on hard assets and securities tokens exactly like this 1043833386257854464.html ---- once the devs figured out  Bruce Fenton (Discord): I didn’t mention Raven because as soon as you mention a way specific product at certain events people stop listening and are closed minded Also so many people don’t even understand tokenized securities that it’s best to do explain that first Once they understand this we instantly realized that the features also have massive potential for game appsconcept then Rvn makes more sense == 12 Sept 2018 - Telegram ==
== 18 Mar 2018 - Telegram ==
Tron:
This is the first phase of a multi-phase project. The whitepaper and roadmap with details haven't been released yet, but most of the information is available from the video of the first Raven meetup. Enough hints have been dropped over the last two months that you could build a pretty good picture of where Raven is headed.
== 17 Mar 2018 - Telegram ==
Bruce Fenton:
Yes the supply Because this is protocol development not something like an ICO scam  Ravencoin is fixed at 21 billion. a protocol — that’s it — it’s software There is no mechanism NO ONE to “make announcements” or “sign partnerships” It’s open source - for inflation. The issuance halving schedule all community members to contribute how they wish — this is a VERY VERY different model than centralized projects who did ICOs etc  If you are expecting centralized sales, marketing, announcements — that will never happen with this project and people should know that  What the same as Bitcoin so should be roughly 3.5-4 years from now depending project does do is focus on how hashrate shrinks building secure and useful software— anyone can contribute and grows.decide if they want to run that software == 25 Aug 2018 - Discord 2 == consensus works in open source by open discussion over what code to run 
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Bruce Fenton:
None planned but we are speaking about roadmap release this week & hope to have a release date (which I don't think will be too far away)
== 16 Mar 2018 Everyone should contribute to the discussion There is no division between devs and non devs - Telegram ==Polymath there is seeking no special authority who bestows the title “developer” - it’s just based on what code people run and who decides to run what they choose So we don’t say “just do what the devs say” because there are no specific “devs” with any official role - just people who have done a different type lot of thing. I know those folks well. They have said they are chain agnostic & so it should work and implemented the vision in the paper Anyone can be a dev Anyone on this platform. page can write code And call themselves a dev No one has authority over any other We the users and holders have the authority by deciding what code to run So if you say “trust the devs” the first question one needs to ask is “who? / which devs” The way to flush that out is by discussion Open and free discussion
Ravencoin aims to be the root blockchain There’s also no special authority for the issuance of tokens such as game tokens, utility tokens any other person - no ceo or securities tokens. founder or master node or author or dev has special power or authority
The project goal is to make this easy and more elegant and more secure than most current methods of creating tokens.
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Bruce Fenton:So hopefully Polymath and any others in the token space will make But main point is that this the first chain they use other than Ethereum. We are working hard to make it a strong chainis open source — there is no authority 
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Bruce Fenton:Imho there will be a good place for a solid and fair POW coin even aside from Ravencoins special and unique capabilitiesWe don’t want to ever discourage discussion — especially over security related issues 
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Bruce Fenton:I like Ethereum and have known Vitalik since he was working at Bitcoin Magazine. I invested in the crowdsale All this project is is a group of people choosing to run code based on what they think Ravencoin means and held. So I'm a fan. This isn't competition with Ethereum overall. But imho we could have significant advantages what code is effective for that definition — every person has the specific use case of token issuance (ERC20 and 721)right to discuss what they think that vision is or means 
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Bruce Fenton:
Main ways this is different:
- more decentralized/ much harder The term hoi polloi is funny but it’s the antithesis of what open source is about — there is no “commoners” or higher class of people  There’s no special category called developers  It’s not ideal to censor say that people should defer to devs — that’s got a lot of issues I can explain —
- uses Bitcoins what if a new dev joins tomorrow and creates the code base to change the supply to 5 trillion with an insta mine of 1 trillion to himself and security burning all addresses bringing in R5?
Would you say “stay in your lane, don’t discuss forks”? Of course not - will have better scaling and security (because we use it’s not what the Bitcoin code and the network strength coin is growing)
- does not use smart contracts but is native It’s super relevant and key to discuss things like hard forks — any hard fork changes the codeconsensus mechanism and the rules which everyone on the network previously agreed to
- the chain is use case specific So it’s really a big responsibility for every user to know and dev is focused on this more than other use cases care what all code changes are
- Tron and other key devs have figured out a way to issue tokens which we think is a next generation solution ---
- There’s also Ravencoin assets will have the ability to issue dividends a HUGE difference between non technical people discussing technical matters and send messages to holders: two huge apps for securities and other types of tokens overall DESIGN matters
- this project is a fair launch and true open source so hopefully will be of interest to more corporations and participants
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Bruce Fenton:This project You won’t see me talking specific code almost ever — it’s not my area of expertise  But overall economics, functionality and design is an area of expertise I have for this coin — Andy one can leverage off develop expertise and have opinions on the advances direction — anyone can choose to listen or not - and run what they want based on a combo of Bitcoin litecoin vision and Bitcoin cash capabilities and othersfunctions with the specific code 
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Bruce Fenton:
This is open source so anyone can build a platform to help users issue game tokens or security tokens or whatever -- at the protocol level the only services will be in the code and maybe a nice user interface --- but services and advisory companies and people are all able to make projects and offer services related to the project
== 15 Mar 2018 - Telegram ==
When a coin is ready the exchanges want to list it and don't need to be convinced.
Usually they need lots of convincing because there are bagholders who want liquidity. That problem is not the same with Ravencoin because there are no founders shared or pre-mine. It changes the economics, metrics and motivation.== 15 Mar 2018 - Discord ==it will be great to have it widely on exchanges -- my humble personal opinion is that it's too early -- but I might be wrong. But certainly when the time is right I'd work hard to get the coin on major exchanges if it seemed it would be beneficial -- right now the grassroots nature has been very successful in attracting the people who are likely to really work to build Well this in to something amazing. However mine is only one opinion and anyone why consensus is welcome to pursue an exchangeso important== 15 Mar 2018 - Telegram ==Bruce Fenton:Still working on roadmap & best way Just something to communicate ideas and info -- plan for — for the future
The first Ravencoin annual meeting will be in October in NH - prior and up to then there will be several updates, roadmap etc and an organized plan for core development as well as 2nd layer/ 3rd party development that could be useful for the projects overall development. ---
So in other words we are working to release the roadmap type document (there might be a better way to describe than white paper or roadmap)
In addition will work with many community members on ideas forWe can all continually improve the quality of review of code changes
1) ways to best complete the core dev portions of the roadmap - this is the main protocol on github Bitcoin
2) 2nd layer solutions Bitcoin system has worked best and how they can be useful (such as use of LN and atomic swaps with assets on the Ravencoin chain or getting solidity working on that’s what Ravencoin by using RSK)is developed after
3) support, networking and ideas for 3rd party and or commercial projects and development which might help or support the project and ecosystem (for example mobile wallets, gaming apps, securities token issuance and other tools)----
Any/ all Bitcoin has made many leaps forward on this - there are lots of these 3 categories will be something anyone can contribute to and develop or use in any way they wish. Important to note that YOU DO NOT NEED PERMISSION to develop for profit apps or commercial or non-commercial apps, products or services using this code contributors and blockchain. 😃discussions
Anyone is welcome to contribute to the code, build second layer solutions, experiment and / or build for profit apps on this.
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this @name — well one thing is real open source that there isn’t and an exercise beyond even most of those projects in seeing how shouldn’t be much collaboration can do. We are are all members of a line between “devs” and “the community” —- devs ARE the team community and everyone owns and participates fairly.the community is devs in this project — there is no separate wall  
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Bruce Fenton:
Totally committed -/ people misunderstand "experiment" really ALL crypto is nearly experimental at this stage. Bitcoin is only 9 years old - there could be completely unforeseen factors which could wipe out this industry. I don't believe that, in fact I bet my career and savings that it won't -- but it really remains almost experimental as an industry. Ravencoin specifically is even more risky than say Bitcoin at this stage because it is new and unproven. There are many factors which could cause this to fail. That's what I mean by experimental.
== 14 Mar 2018 - Telegram ==You don’t need to just “speak with a Bitcoin dev” you can BE a Bitcoin dev by simply submitting code I think this chain makes a great base layer for other projects and tokens because it will be very flexible and easy to put other tools onSecret sauce of Bitcoin is no leaders
Polymath is chain agnosticNo authority
So hopefully will work on RavencoinConsensus
== 13 Mar 2018 Same with Ravencoin- Discord ==This project is different from Cardano and EOS and actually should work well with either of those platforms because both have planned for something similar to atomic swaps to interact with assets like Bitcoin
== 12 Mar 2018 - Discord ==
We should create educational materials that pool owners can provide to their users - some people are mining Ravencoin and don't even know what the project is or its purpose. More information could be helpful.
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It The system is very difficult working well as it is — I don’t see any problems at all — just giving thoughts on best practices and ideas for a company to duplicate the future — there are several things we learned from this type of community and the sheer hours and dedication of the participantshard fork which can be improved on next time - mainly around communicating 
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open source has its own management built There’s some bad habits from ICOS where people come in - anyone can contribute and anyone can run the code to protocol projects looking for leaders or altered codethinking a central authority makes all decisions 
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But look at the resultsIt’s wise to plan for contentious forks 
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It's literally YOUR coin -- that's not a marketing slogan that's the real truth
This isn't owned by a company or centralized officeIt’s wise to plan for contentious forks 
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This discord IS the team!And have healthy debate over all changes 
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Well itForks also present a risk — every code change presents a possibility of unforeseen consequences == 14 Aug 2018 - Telegram == Chatturga:The v2.0.3 binaries are available to download on the ravencoin github. Assuming that everything continues to run smoothly, and no significant bugs need to be addressed, this is the version that will activate DGW and BIP9/RIP2 consensus voting for the asset layer. The devs recommend updating to this version soon (before block 338778), with a particular emphasis toward pool owners and exchanges. I'll reach out to those people at the end of the day since the devs want to do a bit more testing. https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/releases/tag/v2.0.3 == 05 Aug 2018 - Telegram =='' Tron '' Tron:Ravencoin is a protocol platform for assets and will work with anybody's your team infrastructure. Additional requirements can always be added by exchanges, or issuers, but are not native to the asset protocol. ----  Tron:You’re absolutely right. We are watching the issue closely. To put it's open sourcein perspective though, our block times have been roughly 1.5x the speed of BTC during the worst of it. We have already switched to DGW on testnet and Ravencoin is slated to move to DGW on mainnet at the end of October. Our primary concern is not the code, that’s already done. Our primary concern is not allowing the chain to split. A chain split would cause far more damage and confusion than 5 minute blocks. All these people here The diff swings are part a result of being profitable, then not, then profitable again, in an undamped oscillation. DGW will fix it, but it requires a hard fork where everyone must upgrade the team software. This carries some risk. -- especially -- Tron:x16r is the ones who've contributed code hashing algorithm, and allis different than the difficulty adjustment algorithm. I certainly don't plan It will still be x16r. The difficulty adjustment tries to make it so it is 1 minute blocks no matter how many cpus/gpus are mining. Currently it adjusts by looking back 2016 blocks and making a percentage adjustment to bring it inline. There is a 4x limit, which we are close to hitting. It isn’t good but it shouldn’t get much worse. ---- Tron:RVN will still be RVN. The problem is that anyone that doesn’t upgrade when the algo switches over, will be on stopping a different chain. Imagine the problems if CryptoBridge doesn’t upgrade, or Cryptopia, etc. and I don't think you could get they have a different view. A hard fork is just a software upgrade, but it is really important that certain nodes upgrade. We have a managed upgrade already scheduled for the main devs end of Oct that lets everyone decide on their own whether to stop even if you triedupgrade and when enough mining nodes have upgraded, it seamlessly switches over at a set percentage. 
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There are no coins set aside or preminedEvery Tron:No, shorter block times aren’t the problem. Rentable hashpower, and multipools which auto-redirect hashpower to the most profitable coin makes it more difficult to calibrate. That’s what changed. ---- Tron:The longest chain is the winner. We just need to make sure it is crystal clear which one that is. If we have 1/2 mining power on one came from chain and 1/2 on another, it gets murky. If that ever happens, just don’t transfer RVN during that time and you’ll be fine. And, if you’re mining, make sure you’re on the longest chain. 
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I had to acquire my Ravencoin same Tron:DGW will go a long way as everyone elsetowards that. We actually want increased hashing, we just don’t want it coming and going in multi-day intervals. 
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 Tron:I have about 3 mil Ravencoindon’t think miners using a pool will need to change anything. Just make sure the pool you’re using has upgraded whenever the software is upgraded. Make sure you’re using the latest version to view/store/transfer your RVN. 
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People are so used to pitches and ICOs Tron:My understanding is that they expect there was a pitch but Pull Request for RVN on Ledger. I don’t know if/when that will make it's not like that in a project like thisinto production. 
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This coin is very widely distributed- Tron:Yes, unix (linux), Mac, and has a robust and diverse mining community-Windows. We need to make sure the client cross- strong networkcompiles for all of them. 
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Everyone can contribute Tron:Yeah, there were some awful asset names. I imagine that some of the web explorers and every Ravencoin was originally acquired the same way: by fair miningasset marketplaces will want to run names through a filter. 
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This project is different because it's already more distributed and built with the intention of having no leader
== 11 Mar 2018 - Discord ==Tron:1) The algo was developed over probably There’s going to be lots of interesting opportunities. I think someone will build a 3-6 mo time period by Tron Jesse and Joel they'd be able to tell you exact time marketplace for asset names.
2) yes definitely there will be updates etc in coming months
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The Ravencoin.org site is limited mostly to the core code and project -- the BitcoinTalk forum includes a lot more info like pools and mining software which is built by the community
== 10 Mar 2018 - Discord ==Tron:Mining distributes There’s really only one chain. The problem is that when you change the diff algo, then the version of the software using the old algo sees only old algo blocks as valid, and changes and goes software using the algo only sees new algo blocks as valid. The “real” one SHOULD be the new algo chain, but there’s no BOSS that says you can’t run older software. So it is really up the users to upgrade and down and with each iteration makes all agree to use the network stronger and places newer software. I can’t compel anyone to upgrade, but it would make economic sense for everyone to use the nodes and coins in new software. We can write software that doesn’t change the hands of those algorithm until it sees that most interested miners have upgraded because we can put a version number in the tech blocks and projectcount the mined blocks. That’s what BIP9 does — Google it if you’re interested in how it works.
== 8 Mar 2018 - Discord ==
Well the fork is an upgrade fork not a project fork --- so it's not going to result in 2 coins. Hard forks after this will depend on lots of factors -- some things can only be done via hard fork - best way is as upgrades and with lots of notice and time for testing- Monero forks every six months for example
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the fork adds the capability to create assets on the chain - once added then thousands We’re hiring like crazy. Most of assets can be created & no new fork our hires are for tZero, Medici, and Bitsy. If you’re a great developer, you should apply. Bruce is needed for those no matter how complex or how manyin NH and he visits Utah and we visit him in NH. 
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It's healthy for multiple groups to discussTron:Yes. I don’t know how trademark rules would apply. I fought two trademark battles where I felt I was in the right. I won one, and folded the other against a giant “perfect” word processing company. 
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We'd anticipate that some diverse communities will use the Ravencoin chain and capabilities -- example both banking and gaming.Ravencoin will be a great tool Tron:There is support for issuing tokens and financial assetsthat. It will also be a great tool I’m not in favor of that, in general, but it did make sense for things like issuing a token for unique art and also for gaming. Lots of gaming appsour asset hard fork.  
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If this project succeeds we'd end up with the gaming folks and the banking folks probably having different conferences.
== 8 Mar 2018 - Discord ==
('' again a fair bit of chat between 8th and 7th Mar on Discord, captured what looked the most interesting, and skipped a fair bit '')
Messy Tron:I hope not, because I think it would devalue RVN, but it is the price you pay for decentralizationWe could make one "super professional" person be the head of all social media and Discord and the code etccertainly a possibility. the more one person controls the more drawbacksAnd people will never agree anywayWho Interestingly enough, anyone who had RVN before that fork would have RVN and RVC, but I still think it would would want to be be mediator of disputes between miners and others etca net negative overall.-----Yes there are plans to make an org to more formally support developmentAnyone can do that also btw
== 7 Mar 2018 - Discord ==There's no centralized "boss" who can tell people what kind of discords to set up. People seem to have some impression that there is some "they" who can tell mods of a Discord channel what to do. If you set up a Discord channel no one will have any power to tell you what to do either.-----this is open source it's YOUR project. Are YOU willing to do the work to set up and run a Discord? If so then maybe people will join it.-----Anyone can make a new discord. If it's awesome then people will use it.-----Someone asked about forks via DM - there is a planned upgrade fork in 8 months or so. It will be well planned, tested and announced in advance so everyone can easily update miners with plenty of time. This will add the asset creation capabilities into the protocol - it will not affect existing balances or addresses in any way and will not change coin supply etc.-----the Overstock info was covered - definitely never said Overstock wasn't involved, I said it's not a tZero project and that it isn't the same group as the Wyoming people - ostk is involved in the sense that the CEO is a huge supporter and he and the pres of Medici allow key employees to work on this project while on company time-----Caitlin and the Wyoming folks aren't involved in dev or anything
== 6 Mar 2018 - Telegram ==Tron:(''Related Sometimes it is cheaper to a question about the purpose of the coinmine, and sometimes it is cheaper to buy. Right now it just is cheaper to buy — until the diff adjusts. I wrote a test for x16r'')paper on how the two are interlinked. https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoin-value-and-mining-difficulty
Bruce Fenton:Please read the medium and watch the meetup - algo is only one part. Overall coin will work to help create and transfer assets on the chain-----Bruce Fenton:Yes, hard fork is planned which will add more capabilities -- it won't be an airdrop - it will be in the form of an upgrade to the network that miners who wish to follow will need to update their binaries
('' this has been mentioned in Tron:Bruce and I agree that it doesn’t need shilling. Eventually, we’ll need to let more people know it exists and that it is a platform they can build on, but that isn’t even true until the first dev meet up to add token ability..end of October when assets activate on mainnet.many months away'')
== 2 Mar 2018 - Discord ==''(lots of chat on [https://discord.gg/d2K6jTA discord] - some of what we've caught here misses the context, and a bit of chat was skipped, but hopefully caught the most interesting, if you want the detail go to [https://discord.gg/d2K6jTA discord] and find the chat)''--
Tron:
If there’s a Raven Classic, it probably wont have asset support.
I'd love to take a sec and address some incorrect info and misconceptions----
1- Tron:Yes, we would like RVN to continue to be viable cash. Soros afaik does not own this coin and isn't involved We hope it gets used for rewards (paying all holders of your token in any wayRVN), I doubt he's heard of itand for on-chain atomic swaps (paying for assets with RVN where the trade happens all at once).
2- this is not an Overstock corporate project, they are generous in supporting lots of open source projects and allowing employees to work on them on company or personal time - I'm on the board of Medici, this is how Patrick heard of Ravencoin (I told him at dinner in Boston) we are thrilled that they like the project and allow key devs to work on it --
3- this is Tron:I’m not 100% sure. It seems like we’re in a tZero project, bear market — similar to 2014-2015. Some of it is not being built for tZerosold to buy into RVN, it's not the backend of tZeroEOS, there are no discussions about this integrating or trading on tZero and as far as I know the tZero folks are not even aware of it -- it's an entirely separate project-----Now as far as the whole community discord issues: -- a lot of people are so used to scammy centralized ICOs that they might be new to open source and not know how it works. In open source everyone does what they want for their own interest be that intellectual curiosityADA, money or whatever. There into ICOs which are no rulers or CEOs and no one in still going strong outside the project works for other peopleUS.
When someone says "the devs should do__" or "the discord mod should do X" they are essentially saying "Hey, do work I want for free"
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So for example, Kai Tron:I agree - kinda dumb. It is a community member who made this channel and can do whatever he wants.If he wants to convert it to a channel to discuss the Xmen comics that's his business. No one has the right to tell other people how to run things they createcompletely arbitrary line. They are welcome to create Enforce rules against outright fraud, but let everyone invest their own channel and do what money any way they wantchoose. 
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Yes overstock owns Medici Tron:I think there will be sites listing assets for sale. We’ve put “forsale” and I am on “forsale_price” keys in the Medici boardmetadata spec for this reason. They contribute to open source projects Brokers could scan the chain and generously allow key employees the meta data to work on this project and othersbuild a website for exchanging asset names.
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yes roadmap is comingTron:https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/master/assets/asset_metadata_spec.md 
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This is Tron:I will share the people's coin. It's more widely and fairly distributed than any project I know of. That's hard for people scripts to get used allow anyone toregister any names they want. Especially when they are accustomed I’m excited to dealing with ICO marketers who are trying to continually sell a product because they make money from itsee what gets registered. All Raven in the market was initially acquired the same way: by fair mining. So there isn't some centralized profit center driving artificial promotions.
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one Tron:Sending assets will require a small RVN fee. I’d love to get rid of the original ideas I had was to focus on RSK - Tron figured out better ways to accomplish what we needed fee, but RSK remains an awesome project with tons of benefits for Ravencoin-- also it doesn't require core dev work because it can be built on top of the chain -- so hopefully someone will develop opens up too many attacks that asap - we are focused on core protocol for nowdon’t cost anything. 
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Would also be cool Tron:It’s been wonderful chatting with all of you. Thanks for your support of RVN. I’m working on some python scripts that’ll let you create batches of assets (with associated meta data) from a Google spreadsheet or csv. I’ll make them available next week for everyone to see people mess play with LN . It’ll make it easier for anyone wanting to register multiple assets.  == 03 Aug 2018 - Telegram == ''Some interesting posts from tron on the Ravencoin chaintelegram'' Tron:http://raven-blockchain.info/ext/getmoneysupply is stalled on an old block. Needs to be switched to: https://ravencoin.network/api/supply 
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like with Bitcoin the Github has authorized people '' referring to testnet launch''Tron: Thanks. me, Tron, JesseWe had a few glitches that we're fixing, Cade can accept pull requestsbut overall it seems to be performing as expected.Also like Bitcoin people can make their own implementations OR can do forksAny miner can run what they choose
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That's how Bitcoin and all other projects workTron:Brace yourself. I don't know The limits of any other modelfree speech are being tested. FREEDOM!!!For foss
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For the folks upset about the discord I'd definitely recommend reading The Cypherpunk Manifesto.
One of Tron:In the most important overarching themes is that cypherpunks write code. That's it qt, go to Help- we aren't marketers or employees of people who speculate. We are making a project that we think will be useful. That's it. No promises it will work. No guarantees of anything. In the Cypherpunk world you either write or run the code you like or you don't. It's that simple. If we as a community together build something awesome >Debug, then it might have value in the world. We make no scammy ICO style promises about value etc. It's a completely different model from most new projects console tab, and takes a lot of understanding to get used to. Even today with Bitcoin over 9 years old many people don't understand the way development works in open source.type listassetsThis literally is YOUR project. As Gavin Andresen said about Bitcoin "If you want to build something and are waiting for permission you have it, go build"
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 Tron:I'm not a coder either -- I found a technicality: the Manifesto says you have to write code -- d be interested in knowing which ones it doesn't say you have to be good at it or even skilledfulfill. :)So if you wrote a line of HTML or programmed a Wordpress blog you are indeed a (basic) coder-- so that's easyIt is portable, fungible, divisible, durable, transferable, and limited. He harder part USD is understanding and embracing the Cypherpunk ideals5 of those 6. 
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We are all coders which means Tron:Michael Any wallet, explorer, exhange, etc. can use the .png. It likely will not be built into the reference client because we can all don't want to be downloading and showing the types of images that could be Cypherpunksadded. If you've looked at the list of assets created on testnet, you'll understand our concern. 
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We cool now?'' referring to facilitating adoption''Tron:Adoption - ease of use, cross platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, iOs, Android) , and secure. 
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 Tron:We plan annual meeting in October-/ meetups before then - there might hope assets will be a cool farm we can use for a summer meetup in NHtradable on decentralized exchanges. I think this will happen organically as soon as some real projects are using the tokens.Definitely will be NH
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We Tron:Medici has investments in about 14 different companies. I expect some of them will also do meetups be able to use RVN, but RVN is not being developed in Utahsupport of any particular project. It has larger ambitions to be a platform for asset issuance with multi-OS support and much easier to use than ERC20. 
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Tron:Verhoven RVN should be a currency. We plan want it to have a value because phase 3 will allow paying token holders in RVN. Imagine a project that's profitable where the early supporters are rewarded (with RVN) based on the ability to issue percentage of tokens be native to the protocolthey hold. Not a smart contract 
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Bitcoin has the ability Tron:I'm not allowed to let users issue tokens by using Omnilayer or Counterparty- Ravencoin is building on this model and will have similar as well as more advanced features built in to the base codetalk about tZero stuff. 
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 Tron:I had experience with Counterparty, Mastercoin, colored coins, and open assets which had similar capabilities on top of Bitcoin. Itwas secure, but clunky because some bitcoin had to be sent with every asset, and the fees became prohibitively high last year. We's a different way ve been able to approach fix these issues because we can make adjustments that the same problemcore Bitcoin developers can't make. 
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Ethereum ERC20 has been amazing - but this is a different type of model based on a different type of chainTron:The ideas behind the project and using the blockchain for tokenizing assets came from Bruce Fenton, as well as the project name and logo. 
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Tons of new Tron:I'm in talks with the leadership and developers on that project. We've agreed that Ravencoin is great once they're tokenizing the land. First stages are about recording ownership and Ravencoin doesn't fit that use casescase as well. Games, securities tokens etc 
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anonymous / privacy features are a great idea but not first phase part of immediate roadmap
Ideally if there are ways that can be bolted Tron:I've talked to lots of companies about their projects on to the existing Bitcoin protocol which can improve privacy RVN. Two game companies, one tokenized real-estate company, and a VC company that would be an awesome thing for contributors wants to work ondo tokenized Reg A+ offerings.Because if it works on Bitcoin it will work on Raven
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There will be 2 levels with this because there is Ravencoin and there is the tokensIdeally both will be totally private with opt in nonTron:I created a crypto accounting system called CoinCPA --privacy features look for the podcasts from 2014. I was an early employee of Tzero. I'm a Tzero advisor. I worked for those tokens who want to add aml or whatevercrypto company out of Hong Kong. I've helped Spera, and Bitsy which are portfolio companies of Medici Ventures. 
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 Tron:I'm very interested in seeing if tokens can be put into their own LN channels - we think do have some coins. If anything bad happens to the Ravencoin chain, it will be possibleaffect me personally. 
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we had an Tron:It's exciting. I'm a huge fan of everything that's happening in person meeting a few weeks agothe crypto space. As roadmap I think the Ravencoin community is rolled out we will have more dev focused channelsthe best! I feel honored and blessed to be a part of the project. I really want it to succeed. 
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Changing the way value is represented '' in reference to some significant purchases seen recently on cb ''Tron:I can say for certain it isn't me. It really don't think it's Patrick. I don't think it's Bruce, but I don't know that. ==31 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Reminder: careful using testnet and wallets etc - someone WILL lose money because they get confused, send real coins to the world is a worthy goalwrong place only use if you know what you are doing :smiley: 
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It's got nostalgia -- that wasn't done for fun (though it is!) but because it worked for Bitcoin. Too many projects get away from this. EVERYONE knows I propose that founders shares and foundation tokens and premines and "friends and family" rounds are crap. No one denies that true fair, free and open source projects are better... yet we see 1500 ICOs because people are greedy or lazy. This model is as a good one that increases chances of success. If this had been done as an ICO we'd all have tens or hundreds of millions on paper community voluntarily white hat any major names like Google - but nothing close / hopefully if the real Google wants to this use it the community and dev can be bought.member will give it to them at cost — but that’s optional of course
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for legal items this is just open source code. Tons of encryption messaging systems are open source There isn’t any way to pre--And a hash is differentreserve or verify names
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This community gets stronger every day. We have cycles of newbies, idiots, scammers then true believers, geniuses, OGs and cypherpunks. The later replace the former. We get stronger each day. It's an amazing community. Did you see how fast the chat changed once the new channel was created?No force in business or the global economy But we can match the power of a cooperate to register good open source project. Can you imagine if Kai and everyone else where employees of some centralized thing? It would never, ever be as robust and quick to adapt and change.Raven the Trickster from myths and legends is a shapeshifter and creator who uses Ravens environment and surroundings to adapt and make new things. That spirt is a great embodiment of open source.ones
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that was me -- I said that I like Bitcoin to be Bitcoin -- I'm early adopter and board member of Bitcoin Foundation
As a crypto user I want a strong chain to issue assets on -- Bitcoin is definitely a strong chain but it's devs are (and should be!) focused on being digital gold or digital cash or whatever. As a Bitcoin hodler and user I don't want Bitcoin devs to be messing about with optimizing for tokens -- that's hard enough.
So this is why a use case specific blockchain is a good idea maybe : it combines the strength and ridiculously awesome code base of Bitcoin with a dev community which is focused on optimizing the code for a different use.
The hope is that by providing this platform it builds into something with significant advantages over other chains.
== 2 Mar 2018 No first dibs :smiley:- Telegram ==---White hats racing against squatters
I think the surprising aspect was how fast interest gained -- but one shouldn't mistake this as not having --Testnet will give people a plan or roadmap. This chance to see what has been planned built and will also allow more contributors to easily contribute and thought about for years. Some of do security testing because the key ways this code is showing already are reflected in the strength of the network published and number of nodes, users, community. As for funding, development is well funded, many people and companies have invested significantly into dev. The community has funded many significant parts of dev and is growing and stronger every day. The coin is less than 60 days old. The attention to this coin brings lots of good community strength and new devs, volunteers etc. one drawback is that publicity also brings people who don't care about everyone can be on the tech or want some sort of fast results or something. Development will take timesame page
Testnet also allows 2nd and third layer developers to see how the protocol works and build and test apps
Since the network was built first with ravencoin we already have a massive head start when mainnet is launched (versus if the network genesis and the asset layer were launched together)
== 28 Feb 2018 - Telegram ==This means that since racencoin already has tons of users, community members and interested parties the usability of the asset layer capabilities increases
Some additional ways to help Project Ravencoin There are a lot of us in the community who can test and the Ravencoin network.build on this protocol
So - Download the executables from GitHub for your OS (located in the binaries section) when mainnet launches :rocket: there will be a lot of people ready to jumpstart that network and run Raven-qt.exebuild on it
- by running the Raven-at.exe wallet on every PC you own you automatically help strengthen the networkI predict a lot of asset names reserved right away (it will be like domain registration races / land grab)
- join a pool and actively mine - this When mainnet is especially effective if you have a powerful system with a gpu (so far Nvida)launched people will be able to immediately create real assets which will be verified by the ravencoin blockchain
- if you know a developer ask them to consider contributing to GitHub https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin there will be more and more need for dev help as we go
== 29 July 2018 - talk about code, utility, building stuff and plans more than other external factorsDiscord 2 ==
- if you know others interested in open source projects, maybe they will download We had mini raven sculptures hidden all around the wallet, mine or contributeSatoshi Roundtable
== 14 July 2018 - share or post links to ravencoin.org and the twitter ravencoinDiscord 2 ==
- review bounties and work to complete someRavencoin as a real open source & fair launched project will never have the captive marketing budget of an ICO — but those projects will never have the tech depth or scalability that the Ravencoin protocol has.
- support the community bounties---Icos as we know them will not be as big as securities tokens
== 12 July 2018 - build independent apps on top of this chain (nearly everything that can or has been developed for Bitcoin from wallets to second layer projects to paper wallet generators can be implemented on the Ravencoin chain relatively easily) immediate advantages of this chain: low cost, fast 1 minute blocks, asic resistant, widely distributedDiscord 2 ==
The dlr is a different thing - keep active in the community, share ideas, communicate and follow the project's evolutionit’s a specific tool to help crypto interface with existing wall st touting systems
- read the Cypherpunk ManifestoAside from this Tzero is also an exchange which will trade security tokens
==11 July 2018 - learn about tokenization of securities and protocols which move things value using blockchainsDiscord 2 ==
- share what you learn with others: make posts, blogs, videos and tutorialsJust one solid exchange would be very relevant
This project belongs to you. There is no owner, there is no premine, no ICO, no special founders tokens sale or presale, there is no controller. It's yours...the early members of the community and others who join. We make from it what we put in.----
The Inuit, Tlinglit, Tahitian, Chukchi, Sioux and the Haida among others call Raven the magical keeper of secrets, the trickster, friend of the First Men and Creator of the World. An idea Rvn took a path more like BTC or force able to shift, change and create something from nothing. In open source the power of the crowd can do amazing things. Look at what we have accomplished in less than 60 short days: a fairly issued, widely distributed coin with a very solid network and code bass.ltc
This is your coin, whatever you put into it is what it becomes. This will be fun.----
I think an exchange will happen
== 26 Feb 2018 - Telegram ==---'' guest appearance from Tron here talking about the algo There actually is a little ''lot of raven marketing - it’s all pretty much done by volunteer community members bits be trippin etc
Tron:
It isn't one algorithm each block. It is 16 algorithms where 8 bytes (16 nibbles) determine the order of the hashing. 16 algos are used in a chain every block. The order of those 16 algos are detemined by the hash of the previous block which is unpredictable.
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TronI think Tzero hasn’t announced exactly how they will make listing decisions — there will be lots of factors  Rvn could be appealing to any exchange because it has high interest and volume and is not a security and also its code base is based on Bitcoin so well understood  Rvn is an especially natural fit for exchanges focusing on securities tokens == 11 July 2018 - Discord 2 == From @Chatturga Hello, everyone. I bring exciting news about the asset layer! Assuming that everything goes smoothly, the binaries to test the asset layer on testnet will be available for download on July 30th. Additionally, the target date for mainnet release has been tentatively set for October 31st. These dates give the community time to find any issues and for PR's to be processed - with October 31st also being the 1 year anniversary of the first Medium article about Ravencoin. == 3 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Have I mentioned that this is Game of Thrones? GAME OF THRONES! This space is very treacherous and risky - there is a ton of uncertainty. A coin claiming they will “beat Bitcoin” is not credible — neither is it credible to say Bitcoin has a 100% chance of being both global money and the rails for all tokens with zero exceptions. There are a few possible outcomes:They'd 1) Bitcoin becomes the only chain, all projects become sidechains on Bitcoin - RVN and ALL other coins/ projects die completely (possible but unlikely / not certain enough to bet on 100%) 2) Bitcoin dies, other coin or coins / projects serve that need (unlikely)  3) Bitcoin becomes important money and important chain for tokens but other projects survive and serve large or niche markets 3a Raven is one of these survivors 3b it isn’t (This is the most likely scenario imho of the 3 — even if I felt an 80% chance of option 1 then it would still be prudent to handle 16 algos support other coins in case BTC fails or in case any can develop a niche which serves one area better than BTC) ----- So if option 3 occurred and raven survived then it could be used in even a “small” niche of the possibly deca trillion dollar token market and end up being very important. Cross chain atomic swaps and adapt lots of other things will make cooperation between projects make sense — LTC is a good example - the order based project has never tried to be at odds with Bitcoin. Bitcoin was always going to do tokens — that a HQ co like Blockstream is working on this is exciting and validated the hash entire idea.Just a month ago all the best “experts” were saying that tokens couldn’t be put on Bitcoin or a fork of Bitcoin — this is specifically why I always used Bitcoin not raven in the previous blockperiscope video examples on security tokens.  When we did these demos everyone laughed — well now the smartest devs in the space are doing what we’ve been working on for a while as well (Blockstream has worked on this a long time too) It isn't ASIC proofwill be great if both Bitcoin and Raven serve markets in tokens successfully - there are certainly plenty of ways that can work — I also think other projects like ada and eos will have a good chance of surviving and several platforms will thrive for different reasons. Anyway — being that this is Game of Thrones and in the grand timeline of global money and blockchains - we are early in season 1 ... it’s a good time to be supportive of all projects and focus on building great tech rather than “beating” someone.Also — most importantly — Blockstream is NOT a competitor of Raven - Blockstream is a company with investors and some top devs and products etc. - Ravencoin is an idea and some code / software which generates a scare digital asset. So back to the Blockstream announcement  ...If this is Game of Thrones here we are over at Raven Tower okay — and Adam Back is like the Maester from Fort Block — he just moved in and says he wants to fight white walkers with the weapon he’s been working on — Okay I could go on :joy:... But seriously, Blockstream is not an enemy to this project - that’s absurd - they are awesome people and high quality cypherpunks and some of the smartest people in the industry.  The “competitor” isn’t Blockstream it’s Bitcoin (for tokens!) — obviously Bitcoin is the strongest chain and it’s very unlikely raven would replace it — that was never the goal, point or idea (at least from my personal POV or imho)- the better competitor is ETH who actually has serious weaknesses.  Goal as I’ve always personally seen it is to work on this specific use case on a PROTOCOL level to see if it develops advantages overall — it has had some since day one —  Just build good stuff and keep focusing  If you want to attack someone ETH is a better target but even those folks are pretty cool — better to hope the rising tide lifts all boats!! ----- Yeah no one should care so much what I say — centralized authorities are bad  I love this coin and project and community — this is why I’ve given what I think is a fair share of free work to the project — but my activity shouldn’t be so relevant (and neither should anyone else’s) ----- I don’t see it as competition and even if someone were so it would be silly to claim this chain is stronger than Bitcoin - imho far smarter way to look at things is the way LTC and to a lesser extent cardano does: we are all in the same ecosystem ----- I’ve supported raven as best I can and will continue to create — I’ve done about 15 speeches and a hundred tweets and 12 interviews and I’ve received death threats and nearly daily criticisms and accusations of being a scammer / pumper because of being such a thingvocal supporter — I’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of my own money on support of raven — I’ve taken time from my family to fly to meet devs and I’ve spent hundreds of hours on everything from writing and research to design to chatting in forums or answering questions. I receive zero pay and zero special coins or bonus for any work or commentary I do on Raven —Every hour I spend on Raven is uncompensated and I have to skip other paying work to do -  If people think it’s not enough or can do better then by all means hopefully they can step up and be spokespeople also — I offered to help others do so a while ago & will make more ppt etc when I can ----- Asset layer test net should be out in July ----- Blockstream moving into this is great news for the overall ecosystem ----- It’s a $40 trillion market ----- Personally I see it as very different ----- Raven is open sourceIf you want to compete with a company you canOr use the code and software how you choose == 2nd July 2018 - Discord 2 == I have over 150, then we'd change 000 social media followers and announced Raven to over 2000 conference attendees at crypto conferences including Miami BTC and Texas Bitcoin Conference It was posted by many others aside from me and retweeted and reposted by many others  We had 4500 miners within a week and the network grew so fast that solo mining and cpu rigs were obsolete within two weeks To claim that no one was on the network and that some algo, secret miner dominated the mining is preposterous and easily provably false  In the very earliest days the network was widely distributed — the three largest miners (Overstock / Medici and three parties I don’t know who they are) each never reached more than 10-15% of hash power —- and that was only for a short few weeks or change so in the earlier days  Since then the math can easily show that for anyone to have significant network power they would have to spend a significant amount on GPU rigs — the math & metrics behind this are trivial for anyone with a basic understanding of mining and crypto  It is simply impossible to have had a special advantage on the order starting launch - all anyone could have possibly done is what early miners did:: take a big risk on early equipment-/  No one had any advantage whatsoever and there was absolutely no premine or set aside or insta mine at all  This is what is great about this tech - a blockchain is provableI guess at block X to allow the software ravencoin annual meeting we can ask early miners to be changed. ASICs raise hands ----- Blockstream is a company — raven is a protocol We are not welcome.competing with Blockstream == Older Posts == [[Fenton Files: April 2018 - June 2018]] [[Fenton Files: start - March 2018]]
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