883
edits
Changes
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
Please read the medium and watch the meetup - algo Because this is only one part. Overall coin will work to help create and transfer assets on the chain-----Bruce Fenton:Yes, hard fork is planned which will add more capabilities -- it won't be an airdrop - it will be in the form of protocol development not something like an upgrade to the network that miners who wish to follow will need to update their binariesICO scam
('' this has been mentioned in the first dev meet up to add token ability...many months away'')Ravencoin is a protocol — that’s it — it’s software
== 2 Mar 2018 - Discord ==''(lots of chat on [https://discord.gg/d2K6jTA discord] - some of what we've caught here misses the context, and a bit of chat was skipped, but hopefully caught the most interesting, if you want the detail go There is NO ONE to [https://discord.gg/d2K6jTA discord] and find the chat)''“make announcements” or “sign partnerships”
I'd love to take a sec If you are expecting centralized sales, marketing, announcements — that will never happen with this project and address some incorrect info and misconceptionspeople should know that
1- Soros afaik What the project does not own this coin do is focus on building secure and isn't involved in any way, I doubt he's heard of ituseful software— anyone can contribute and decide if they want to run that software
3- this is not a tZero project, is not being built for tZero, it's not the backend of tZero, there are no discussions about this integrating or trading on tZero and as far as I know the tZero folks are not even aware of it -- it's an entirely separate project-----Now as far as the whole community discord issues: -- a lot of people are so used to scammy centralized ICOs that they might be new to consensus works in open source and not know how it works. In by open source everyone does discussion over what they want for their own interest be that intellectual curiosity, money or whatever. There are no rulers or CEOs and no one in the project works for other people. code to run
When someone says "the devs should do__" or "the discord mod should do X" they are essentially saying "Hey, do work I want for free"
Yes overstock owns Medici and I am on the Medici board. They contribute to But main point is that this is open source projects and generously allow key employees to work on this project and others— there is no authority
yes roadmap is comingWe don’t want to ever discourage discussion — especially over security related issues
This All this project is is the people's coin. It's more widely and fairly distributed than any project I know a group of. That's hard for people choosing to get used to. Especially when run code based on what they are accustomed think Ravencoin means and what code is effective for that definition — every person has the right to dealing with ICO marketers who are trying to continually sell a product because discuss what they make money from it. All Raven in the market was initially acquired the same way: by fair mining. think that vision is or meansSo there isn't some centralized profit center driving artificial promotions.
one The term hoi polloi is funny but it’s the antithesis of what open source is about — there is no “commoners” or higher class of people There’s no special category called developers It’s not ideal to say that people should defer to devs — that’s got a lot of issues I can explain — what if a new dev joins tomorrow and creates the original ideas I had was code to focus on RSK - Tron figured out better ways change the supply to accomplish what we needed but RSK remains 5 trillion with an awesome project with tons insta mine of benefits for Ravencoin1 trillion to himself and burning all addresses bringing in R5? Would you say “stay in your lane, don’t discuss forks”? Of course not -- also it doesn't require core dev work because it can be built it’s not what the coin is It’s super relevant and key to discuss things like hard forks — any hard fork changes the consensus mechanism and the rules which everyone on top of the chain -- so hopefully someone will develop that asap - we network previously agreed to So it’s really a big responsibility for every user to know and care what all code changes are focused on core protocol for now
Would There’s also be cool to see a HUGE difference between non technical people mess with LN on the Ravencoin chaindiscussing technical matters and overall DESIGN matters
like with Bitcoin the Github has authorized people : You won’t see metalking specific code almost ever — it’s not my area of expertise But overall economics, Tron, Jesse, Cade functionality and design is an area of expertise I have for this coin — Andy one can accept pull requests.Also like Bitcoin people can make their own implementations OR can do forksAny miner develop expertise and have opinions on the direction — anyone can choose to listen or not - and run what they choosewant based on a combo of vision and capabilities and functions with the specific code
That's how Bitcoin and all other projects work. I don't know of any other modelFor fossWell this is why consensus is so important Just something to plan for — for the future
For the folks upset about the discord I'd definitely recommend reading The Cypherpunk Manifesto.
One of We can all continually improve the most important overarching themes is that cypherpunks write code. That's it - we aren't marketers or employees quality of people who speculate. We are making a project that we think will be useful. That's it. No promises it will work. No guarantees review of anything. In the Cypherpunk world you either write or run the code you like or you don't. It's that simple. changesIf we as a community together build something awesome then it might have value in the world. We make no scammy ICO style promises about value etc. It's a completely different model from most new projects and takes a lot of understanding to get used to. Even today with Bitcoin over 9 years old many people don't understand the way development works in open source.This literally is YOUR project. As Gavin Andresen said about Bitcoin "If you want to build something system has worked best and are waiting for permission you have it, go build"that’s what Ravencoin is developed after
I'm not a coder either Bitcoin has made many leaps forward on this -- I found a technicality: the Manifesto says you have to write code -- it doesn't say you have to be good at it or even skilled. :)So if you wrote a line there are lots of HTML or programmed a Wordpress blog you are indeed a (basic) coder-- so that's easy. He harder part is understanding contributors and embracing the Cypherpunk ideals.discussions
We are all coders which means we can all @name — well one thing is that there isn’t and shouldn’t be Cypherpunks.much of a line between “devs” and “the community” —- devs ARE the community and the community is devs in this project — there is no separate wall
We cool now?You don’t need to just “speak with a Bitcoin dev” you can BE a Bitcoin dev by simply submitting code Secret sauce of Bitcoin is no leaders No authority Consensus Same with Ravencoin-
We plan annual meeting in October-/ meetups before then - The system is working well as it is — I don’t see any problems at all — just giving thoughts on best practices and ideas for the future — there might be a cool farm are several things we learned from this hard fork which can use for a summer meetup in NHbe improved on next time - mainly around communicatingDefinitely will be NH
We will also do meetups There’s some bad habits from ICOS where people come in Utahto protocol projects looking for leaders or thinking a central authority makes all decisions
We It’s wise to plan to have the ability to issue tokens be native to the protocol. Not a smart contractfor contentious forks
Bitcoin has the ability It’s wise to let users issue tokens by using Omnilayer or Counterparty- Ravencoin is building on this model and will have similar as well as more advanced features built in to the base codeplan for contentious forks
It's a different way to approach the same problemAnd have healthy debate over all changes
Ethereum ERC20 has been amazing Forks also present a risk — every code change presents a possibility of unforeseen consequences == 14 Aug 2018 - but Telegram == Chatturga:The v2.0.3 binaries are available to download on the ravencoin github. Assuming that everything continues to run smoothly, and no significant bugs need to be addressed, this is the version that will activate DGW and BIP9/RIP2 consensus voting for the asset layer. The devs recommend updating to this version soon (before block 338778), with a different type particular emphasis toward pool owners and exchanges. I'll reach out to those people at the end of model based on the day since the devs want to do a bit more testing. https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/releases/tag/v2.0.3 == 05 Aug 2018 - Telegram =='' Tron '' Tron:Ravencoin is a different type of chainprotocol platform for assets and will work with anybody's infrastructure. Additional requirements can always be added by exchanges, or issuers, but are not native to the asset protocol.
Tons Tron:You’re absolutely right. We are watching the issue closely. To put it in perspective though, our block times have been roughly 1.5x the speed of new use casesBTC during the worst of it. GamesWe have already switched to DGW on testnet and Ravencoin is slated to move to DGW on mainnet at the end of October. Our primary concern is not the code, securities tokens etcthat’s already done. Our primary concern is not allowing the chain to split. A chain split would cause far more damage and confusion than 5 minute blocks. The diff swings are a result of being profitable, then not, then profitable again, in an undamped oscillation. DGW will fix it, but it requires a hard fork where everyone must upgrade the software. This carries some risk.
anonymous / privacy features are a great idea but not first phase part of immediate roadmap
Ideally if there Tron:x16r is the hashing algorithm, and is different than the difficulty adjustment algorithm. It will still be x16r. The difficulty adjustment tries to make it so it is 1 minute blocks no matter how many cpus/gpus are ways that can be bolted on mining. Currently it adjusts by looking back 2016 blocks and making a percentage adjustment to the existing Bitcoin protocol bring it inline. There is a 4x limit, which can improve privacy that would be an awesome thing for contributors we are close to work onhitting. It isn’t good but it shouldn’t get much worse.Because if it works on Bitcoin it will work on Raven
There Tron:RVN will still be 2 levels with this because there is Ravencoin and there RVN. The problem is that anyone that doesn’t upgrade when the tokensIdeally both algo switches over, will be totally private with opt in non-privacy features on a different chain. Imagine the problems if CryptoBridge doesn’t upgrade, or Cryptopia, etc. and they have a different view. A hard fork is just a software upgrade, but it is really important that certain nodes upgrade. We have a managed upgrade already scheduled for those tokens who want the end of Oct that lets everyone decide on their own whether to add aml or whateverupgrade and when enough mining nodes have upgraded, it seamlessly switches over at a set percentage.
I'm very interested in seeing if tokens can be put into their own LN channels Tron:No, shorter block times aren’t the problem. Rentable hashpower, and multipools which auto- we think redirect hashpower to the most profitable coin makes it will be possiblemore difficult to calibrate. That’s what changed.
we had an in person meeting a few weeks agoTron:The longest chain is the winner. We just need to make sure it is crystal clear which one that is. As roadmap is rolled out If we will have more dev focused channels1/2 mining power on one chain and 1/2 on another, it gets murky. If that ever happens, just don’t transfer RVN during that time and you’ll be fine. And, if you’re mining, make sure you’re on the longest chain.
Changing the Tron:DGW will go a long way value is represented towards that. We actually want increased hashing, we just don’t want it coming and going in the world is a worthy goalmulti-day intervals.
It's got nostalgia -- Tron:I don’t think miners using a pool will need to change anything. that wasn't done for fun (though it Just make sure the pool you’re using has upgraded whenever the software is!) but because it worked for Bitcoin. Too many projects get away from this. EVERYONE knows that founders shares and foundation tokens and premines and "friends and family" rounds are crapupgraded. No one denies that true fair, free and open source projects are better... yet we see 1500 ICOs because people are greedy or lazy. This model is a good one that increases chances of successMake sure you’re using the latest version to view/store/transfer your RVN. If this had been done as an ICO we'd all have tens or hundreds of millions on paper - but nothing close to this community and dev can be bought.
This community gets stronger every day. We have cycles of newbiesTron:Yes, idiotsunix (linux), scammers then true believersMac, geniuses, OGs and cypherpunksWindows. The later replace the former. We get stronger each day. It's an amazing community. Did you see how fast need to make sure the chat changed once the new channel was created?No force in business or the global economy can match the power client cross-compiles for all of a good open source projectthem. Can you imagine if Kai and everyone else where employees of some centralized thing? It would never, ever be as robust and quick to adapt and change.Raven the Trickster from myths and legends is a shapeshifter and creator who uses Ravens environment and surroundings to adapt and make new things. That spirt is a great embodiment of open source.
that was me -- I said that I like Bitcoin to be Bitcoin -- I'm early adopter and board member of Bitcoin Foundation
As a crypto user I want a strong chain to issue assets on -- Bitcoin is definitely a strong chain but it's devs are (and should be!) focused on being digital gold or digital cash or whatever. As a Bitcoin hodler and user I don't want Bitcoin devs to be messing about with optimizing for tokens -- that's hard enough.
So this is why a use case specific blockchain is a good idea maybe : it combines the strength and ridiculously awesome code base of Bitcoin with a dev community which is focused on optimizing the code for a different use.
The hope is that by providing this platform it builds into something with significant advantages over other chains.
== 2 Mar 2018 - Telegram ==Tron:Yeah, there were some awful asset names. I imagine that some of the web explorers and asset marketplaces will want to run names through a filter.
I think the surprising aspect was how fast interest gained -- but one shouldn't mistake this as not having a plan or roadmap. This has been planned and thought about for years. Some of the key ways this is showing already are reflected in the strength of the network and number of nodes, users, community. As for funding, development is well funded, many people and companies have invested significantly into dev. The community has funded many significant parts of dev and is growing and stronger every day. The coin is less than 60 days old. The attention to this coin brings lots of good community strength and new devs, volunteers etc. one drawback is that publicity also brings people who don't care about the tech or want some sort of fast results or something. Development will take time--
== 28 Feb 2018 - Telegram ==Tron:There’s really only one chain. The problem is that when you change the diff algo, then the version of the software using the old algo sees only old algo blocks as valid, and software using the algo only sees new algo blocks as valid. The “real” one SHOULD be the new algo chain, but there’s no BOSS that says you can’t run older software. So it is really up the users to upgrade and all agree to use the newer software. I can’t compel anyone to upgrade, but it would make economic sense for everyone to use the new software. We can write software that doesn’t change the algorithm until it sees that most miners have upgraded because we can put a version number in the blocks and count the mined blocks. That’s what BIP9 does — Google it if you’re interested in how it works.
Some additional ways to help Project Ravencoin and the Ravencoin network.----
- Download the executables from GitHub We’re hiring like crazy. Most of our hires are for your OS (located tZero, Medici, and Bitsy. If you’re a great developer, you should apply. Bruce is in the binaries section) NH and run Raven-qthe visits Utah and we visit him in NH.exe
- join a pool Tron:Yes. I don’t know how trademark rules would apply. I fought two trademark battles where I felt I was in the right. I won one, and actively mine - this is especially effective if you have a powerful system with folded the other against a gpu (so far Nvida)giant “perfect” word processing company.
- talk about codeTron:There is support for that. I’m not in favor of that, utilityin general, building stuff and plans more than other external factorsbut it did make sense for our asset hard fork.
- share or post links to ravencoinTron:I hope not, because I think it would devalue RVN, but it is certainly a possibility.org Interestingly enough, anyone who had RVN before that fork would have RVN and the twitter ravencoinRVC, but I still think it would would be a net negative overall.
- keep active in the communityTron:Bruce and I agree that it doesn’t need shilling. Eventually, share ideaswe’ll need to let more people know it exists and that it is a platform they can build on, communicate and follow but that isn’t even true until the project's evolutionend of October when assets activate on mainnet.
- learn about tokenization of securities and protocols which move things value using blockchainsTron:If there’s a Raven Classic, it probably wont have asset support.
This ----Tron:I'm in talks with the leadership and developers on that project belongs to you. There is no owner, there is no premine, no ICO, no special founders tokens sale or presale, there We've agreed that Ravencoin is no controller. Itgreat once they's yoursre tokenizing the land...the early members of the community First stages are about recording ownership and others who join. We make from it what we put inRavencoin doesn't fit that use case as well.
The Inuit, Tlinglit, Tahitian, Chukchi, Sioux and the Haida among others call Raven the magical keeper of secrets, the trickster, friend of the First Men and Creator of the World. An idea or force able to shift, change and create something from nothing. In open source the power of the crowd can do amazing things. Look at what we have accomplished in less than 60 short days: a fairly issued, widely distributed coin with a very solid network and code bass.----
This is your coinTron:I've talked to lots of companies about their projects on RVN. Two game companies, whatever you put into it is what it becomes. This will be funone tokenized real-estate company, and a VC company that wants to do tokenized Reg A+ offerings.
== 26 Feb 2018 Tron:I created a crypto accounting system called CoinCPA - Telegram ==- look for the podcasts from 2014. I was an early employee of Tzero. I'm a Tzero advisor. I worked for crypto company out of Hong Kong. I' guest appearance from ve helped Spera, and Bitsy which are portfolio companies of Medici Ventures. ---- Tron here talking about :I do have some coins. If anything bad happens to the algo a little ''Ravencoin chain, it will affect me personally. ----
TheyI can say for certain it isn't me. It really don't think it's Patrick. I don't think it's Bruce, but I don'd need t know that. ==31 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Reminder: careful using testnet and wallets etc - someone WILL lose money because they get confused, send real coins to the wrong place only use if you know what you are doing :smiley: ----I propose that we as a community voluntarily white hat any major names like Google -/ hopefully if the real Google wants to use it the community member will give it to them at cost — but that’s optional of course----There isn’t any way to pre-reserve or verify names----But we can cooperate to register good ones---- No first dibs :smiley:----White hats racing against squatters ----Testnet will give people a chance to see what has been built and will also allow more contributors to easily contribute and do security testing because the code is published and everyone can be on the same page Testnet also allows 2nd and third layer developers to see how the protocol works and build and test apps Since the network was built first with ravencoin we already have a massive head start when mainnet is launched (versus if the network genesis and the asset layer were launched together) This means that since racencoin already has tons of users, community members and interested parties the usability of the asset layer capabilities increases There are a lot of us in the community who can test and build on this protocol So - when mainnet launches :rocket: there will be a lot of people ready to handle 16 algos jumpstart that network and adapt build on it I predict a lot of asset names reserved right away (it will be like domain registration races / land grab) When mainnet is launched people will be able to immediately create real assets which will be verified by the ravencoin blockchain == 29 July 2018 - Discord 2 == We had mini raven sculptures hidden all around the Satoshi Roundtable == 14 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Ravencoin as a real open source & fair launched project will never have the captive marketing budget of an ICO — but those projects will never have the tech depth or scalability that the order Ravencoin protocol has. ----Icos as we know them will not be as big as securities tokens == 12 July 2018 - Discord 2 == The dlr is a different thing - it’s a specific tool to help crypto interface with existing wall st touting systems Aside from this Tzero is also an exchange which will trade security tokens ==11 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Just one solid exchange would be very relevant ---- Rvn took a path more like BTC or ltc ---- I think an exchange will happen ---- There actually is a lot of raven marketing - it’s all pretty much done by volunteer community members bits be trippin etc ---- I think Tzero hasn’t announced exactly how they will make listing decisions — there will be lots of factors Rvn could be appealing to any exchange because it has high interest and volume and is not a security and also its code base is based on Bitcoin so well understood Rvn is an especially natural fit for exchanges focusing on securities tokens == 11 July 2018 - Discord 2 == From @Chatturga Hello, everyone. I bring exciting news about the asset layer! Assuming that everything goes smoothly, the binaries to test the asset layer on testnet will be available for download on July 30th. Additionally, the target date for mainnet release has been tentatively set for October 31st. These dates give the community time to find any issues and for PR's to be processed - with October 31st also being the hash 1 year anniversary of the first Medium article about Ravencoin. == 3 July 2018 - Discord 2 == Have I mentioned that this is Game of Thrones? GAME OF THRONES! This space is very treacherous and risky - there is a ton of uncertainty. A coin claiming they will “beat Bitcoin” is not credible — neither is it credible to say Bitcoin has a 100% chance of being both global money and the previous blockrails for all tokens with zero exceptions. It isn't ASIC proof There are a few possible outcomes: 1) Bitcoin becomes the only chain, all projects become sidechains on Bitcoin - RVN and ALL other coins/ projects die completely (possible but unlikely / not certain enough to bet on 100%) 2) Bitcoin dies, other coin or coins / projects serve that need (unlikely) 3) Bitcoin becomes important money and important chain for tokens but other projects survive and serve large or niche markets 3a Raven is one of these survivors 3b it isn’t (This is the most likely scenario imho of the 3 — even if I felt an 80% chance of option 1 then it would still be prudent to support other coins in case BTC fails or in case any can develop a niche which serves one area better than BTC) ----- So if someone option 3 occurred and raven survived then it could be used in even a “small” niche of the possibly deca trillion dollar token market and end up being very important. Cross chain atomic swaps and lots of other things will make cooperation between projects make sense — LTC is a good example - the project has never tried to be at odds with Bitcoin. Bitcoin was always going to do tokens — that a HQ co like Blockstream is working on this is exciting and validated the entire idea.Just a month ago all the best “experts” were saying that tokens couldn’t be put on Bitcoin or a fork of Bitcoin — this is specifically why I always used Bitcoin not raven in the periscope video examples on security tokens. When we did these demos everyone laughed — well now the smartest devs in the space are doing what we’ve been working on for a while as well (Blockstream has worked on this a long time too) It will be great if both Bitcoin and Raven serve markets in tokens successfully - there are certainly plenty of ways that can work — I also think other projects like ada and eos will have a good chance of surviving and several platforms will thrive for different reasons. Anyway — being that this is Game of Thrones and in the grand timeline of global money and blockchains - we are early in season 1 ... it’s a good time to create such be supportive of all projects and focus on building great tech rather than “beating” someone.Also — most importantly — Blockstream is NOT a competitor of Raven - Blockstream is a company with investors and some top devs and products etc. - Ravencoin is an idea and some code / software which generates a thingscare digital asset. So back to the Blockstream announcement ...If this is Game of Thrones here we are over at Raven Tower okay — and Adam Back is like the Maester from Fort Block — he just moved in and says he wants to fight white walkers with the weapon he’s been working on — Okay I could go on :joy:... But seriously, then we'd change Blockstream is not an enemy to this project - that’s absurd - they are awesome people and high quality cypherpunks and some algoof the smartest people in the industry. The “competitor” isn’t Blockstream it’s Bitcoin (for tokens!) — obviously Bitcoin is the strongest chain and it’s very unlikely raven would replace it — that was never the goal, point or change idea (at least from my personal POV or imho)- the better competitor is ETH who actually has serious weaknesses. Goal as I’ve always personally seen it is to work on this specific use case on a PROTOCOL level to see if it develops advantages overall — it has had some since day one — Just build good stuff and keep focusing If you want to attack someone ETH is a better target but even those folks are pretty cool — better to hope the rising tide lifts all boats!! ----- Yeah no one should care so much what I say — centralized authorities are bad I love this coin and project and community — this is why I’ve given what I think is a fair share of free work to the order starting project — but my activity shouldn’t be so relevant (and neither should anyone else’s) ----- I don’t see it as competition and even if so it would be silly to claim this chain is stronger than Bitcoin - imho far smarter way to look at block X things is the way LTC and to a lesser extent cardano does: we are all in the same ecosystem ----- I’ve supported raven as best I can and will continue to — I’ve done about 15 speeches and a hundred tweets and 12 interviews and I’ve received death threats and nearly daily criticisms and accusations of being a scammer / pumper because of being such a vocal supporter — I’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of my own money on support of raven — I’ve taken time from my family to fly to meet devs and I’ve spent hundreds of hours on everything from writing and research to design to chatting in forums or answering questions. I receive zero pay and zero special coins or bonus for any work or commentary I do on Raven —Every hour I spend on Raven is uncompensated and I have to skip other paying work to do - If people think it’s not enough or can do better then by all means hopefully they can step up and be spokespeople also — I offered to allow help others do so a while ago & will make more ppt etc when I can ----- Asset layer test net should be out in July ----- Blockstream moving into this is great news for the overall ecosystem ----- It’s a $40 trillion market ----- Personally I see it as very different ----- Raven is open sourceIf you want to compete with a company you canOr use the code and software how you choose == 2nd July 2018 - Discord 2 == I have over 150,000 social media followers and announced Raven to over 2000 conference attendees at crypto conferences including Miami BTC and Texas Bitcoin Conference It was posted by many others aside from me and retweeted and reposted by many others We had 4500 miners within a week and the network grew so fast that solo mining and cpu rigs were obsolete within two weeks To claim that no one was on the network and that some secret miner dominated the mining is preposterous and easily provably false In the very earliest days the network was widely distributed — the three largest miners (Overstock / Medici and three parties I don’t know who they are) each never reached more than 10-15% of hash power —- and that was only for a short few weeks or so in the earlier days Since then the math can easily show that for anyone to have significant network power they would have to spend a significant amount on GPU rigs — the math & metrics behind this are trivial for anyone with a basic understanding of mining and crypto It is simply impossible to have had a special advantage on the launch - all anyone could have possibly done is what early miners did:: take a big risk on early equipment-/ No one had any advantage whatsoever and there was absolutely no premine or set aside or insta mine at all This is what is great about this tech - a blockchain is provableI guess at the ravencoin annual meeting we can ask early miners to be changed. ASICs raise hands ----- Blockstream is a company — raven is a protocol We are not welcome.competing with Blockstream == Older Posts == [[Fenton Files: April 2018 - June 2018]] [[Fenton Files: start - March 2018]]
no edit summary
{{#seo:
|title=Ravencoin Wiki: Fenton Files
|keywords=Ravencoin Fenton files
|description=A page capturing some of the chat posts from Bruce Fenton and the core team developers on the community chat servers. Not comprehensive, but covers most of the more important discussions.
}}
This page aims to capture some of the thoughts from [https://twitter.com/brucefenton Bruce Fenton] and some of the core devs about [http://ravencoin.org RavenCoin], it's purpose and future. It's not comprehensive, just some of the interesting comments spotted on the community chats.
Discord 1 refers to the original discord which has since been deleted by it's owner. Discord 2 refers to the 2nd discord that was set up by the community. Links on [[community]] page.
__TOC__
== 11 Nov 2018 - Discord 2 == Economics of token creation - raven ends up being exactly the same issuance schedule as Bitcoin but with this perpetual drain on total supply in the form of whatever is burned. That-/ and the fact that it’s real 100% pow coins getting burned - that means RVN assets have sort of a neat double POW / a real asset (energy) has been burned to allow assets to exist This gives them value. Not much, it’s tiny. But it does exist and that’s very different than other projects and very fascinating. ==09 Nov 2018 - Discord 2 == Talking your own book is exactly ethical and legal— especially if disclosed. It’s one of the purest form of ethical interaction in commerce.Some had to not only risk public reputation to support this coin but also give miners over $ of my capital to get the coins we own. So a miner could have dumped on us and I’d be the one conned.Someone being well known or ostk backing some dev is also not relevant. Oprah or Andreas could mention this coin for five seconds and instantly have more influence than paper authors. If Greg Maxwell came and said something was a security risk, people would listen etc etc. that’s how a real open source project works. In a fair launch like this it’s almost impossible to have one party have the upper hand. That’s not marketing talk or something to pump ravens structure — that’s just the truth.Projects with a fair & open launch are literally a gift to the users — anything created from those projects is created by fair work to the people. It’s absolutely incomparable to something that raised money. Nothing wrong with raising money by the way but it’s utterly and completely different from giving away something for free. It’s decentralized versus centralized. Permissioned versus free. It’s the very core of our industry. A foundational core of what open source / decentralized/ cypherpunk networks can be. Now ravencoin may be stupid, a bad idea, it may fail, it may break, it may have unforeseen problems or it might just be outpaced by any of a dozen projects trying to do the same. All those are potentially valid debates. —- but there’s just no reasonable way to say this project wasn’t fair. It’s provable on the blockchain that this was the most widely participated in and fastest growing network in history. One may think raven is a weak project but it’s fairness is completely undeniable— if someone doesn’t believe that then they either don’t understand or believe in crypto or they don’t fully understand how this project works. By the way:: we need to spread that far and wide. People should understand that this is their project — anyone can build on it All this work we’ve done:: it’s free! All the code, the network — all that’s been invested — it all belongs to all members of the community. Anyone can use it and any one can benefit from this network. Now for 500 RVN you can create a permanent asset backed by this absolutely massive amount of hashpower. That asset can do all kinds of cool stuff. This is amazing. People don’t even see it yet. The structure is a key part. No leaders, no rulers, no centralized parties. That’s best practices. It’s harder. ==17 Oct 2018 - Discord 2 == New folks be sure to 1) download the latest wallet - recognize that this is YOUR project - it’s open source and NOT controlled by any specific people - you can build on this and use it without permission! 2) start mining — with a gpu you can get some coins to use and reserve names with but even if not then it still helps the network 3) running a full mining node helps strengthen the coin and helps everyone 4) download testnet NOW and mess with creating assets (!) this way you are ready for: 5) be ready to create real assets after mainnet launches on Oct 31 - you only get one shot at each asset name 6 Mar ) register names you can use (if you register a brand name please consider giving it to the brand owner if they ask, this helps the network) 7) imho best early tokens will be game and experiments - fun things — this is still early stage and experimental — will be ready for things like securities once lots of testing in the live world — don’t take unwise financial risks - this is an experiment!- have fun and build something cool == 05 Oct 2018 - Telegram Discord 2 ==(''Related The entire structure of ravencoin is VERY different from almost every other project — so it takes a lot of learningThanks to all who participate----the thing is that Ravencoin is a protocol not a company — this is why no partnerships -// not because they aren’t valuable but because they are not necessary Ravencoin doesn’t have partnerships with companies because 1) there’s no one to make such a partnership 2) the companies and devs wanting to build on this don’t need anyone’s permission - they can just build This is a question good model — imho it’s the best model----Finding the right balance of how much to talk about this project is hard----Software is allowed to be centralized. When people say this isn’t it’s not because they are lying to pretend something — it’s because it’s accurate.----The main misunderstanding seems to be that ravencoin is controlled or directed by Medici or tZero It’s just not the case This isn’t some claim that someone is trying to make to comply with some rule — its the purpose actual truth. Also there is no law that this would be relevant for — the idea that a company working on an open source project “makes it a security” is silly and it’s super insulting Whether raven is centrally controlled or has corporate involvement / oversight / investment etc do not make it a security anyway — that entire line of thinking is based on faulty logic and not understanding now Ravencoin works or was issued Ravencoin was released for free exactly like Litecoin — because it was never sold it was not an offering Even if it had one person as a ceo and even if that one person worked for Medici it would not matter —- still not a security----my time doesn’t belong to you. Usually when people write articles and mention someone they get quotes from them and check for accuracy first —- I do what I can to give accurate info. I waste hours on this and the only result is time wasted---- It doesn’t matter if something it centralized----That doesn’t make it a security----A coin being centralized or controlled by a company matters when the company or coinraises money - a project like Raven is completely different----there’s nothing whatsoever “hinging” on that — that’s crazy talk. No reasonable or knowledgeable person I’ve heard of considers RVN a security. If they do then :shrug:♂️ Litecoin and Bitcoin would be as well. It’s insane ... no — not at all. Ridiculous This all stems from people who don’t understand securities----There’s tons of info out thereNot sure why people assume a conspiracyThere’s no one “at the top” There’s no one “worried” It’s REALLLY key to understand that this is an open source, decentralized project —- there is no person or people or corporation running it There is no conspiracy etcPeople just work in their own interests---->>>>Ravencoin is not an entity at all <<<<----What matters is whether ravencoin can and does work ----Crap projects have an interest in promoting “partnerships” and stuff — actual protocols don’t----''(In reference (I think) to Medici / Overstock / RVN)'' I’ve said 100 times that they aren’t related — even made videos about it----Rvn is better than ever - amazing - one of the strongest projects ever----Because raven isn’t like that and isn’t a corporate project with “deals” and “agreements” / joint ventures and that kind of ico crap----Medici donates dev timeWhich is great But people assume much more of a corporate tie Which is a shame----Not a test gift from MV MV gifts some dev----Big difference----There’s an impression that tZero and raven fit together in some special way or work together or that one platform is being designed for x16rthe other----''(In reference to an article speculating on the connection between various OSTK / MV projects and RVN)'' thanks! I’m not a fan of the screen shot from discord — I’ve tried to make clear many times that the projects really are not related — that screen shot taken on its own and out of the context of its convo seems like I’m winking and being coy or something imho Basically it was in reply to people who think the opposite: which is that tZero has nothing to do with rvn and will never list it because they are competitors or something Neither is true It’s really not a corporate coin -/ existed before anyone at tZero heard of it and before I joined the board There’s no team of folks at tZero working on raven and it defiantly wasn’t designed by tZero or created for some tZero purpose----Yes but ostk owns a mess of stuff and there’s no major direction from ostk to any portfolio cos to support ravencoin----TZero and ravencoin are much less related than people assume == 23 Sept 2018 - Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference ==Title: Global Ledgers: Scaling & Capacity for Legacy Securities Systems in the Age of Atomic Swaps Conference: Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference, Riga, Sep 22-23 Bruce talks about the history of securities, it's current problems, and block chain. Talk at: https://youtu.be/D2WXxgZ8h-0?t=1h48m23s Slides at: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1043833386257854464.html ---- Bruce Fenton (Discord): I didn’t mention Raven because as soon as you mention a specific product at certain events people stop listening and are closed minded Also so many people don’t even understand tokenized securities that it’s best to explain that first Once they understand this concept then Rvn makes more sense == 12 Sept 2018 - Telegram ==
Bruce Fenton:
It’s open source - for all community members to contribute how they wish — this is a VERY VERY different model than centralized projects who did ICOs etc
== 25 Aug 2018 - Discord 2- this is not an Overstock corporate project, they are generous in supporting lots of open source projects and allowing employees to work on them on company or personal time - I'm on the board of Medici, this is how Patrick heard of Ravencoin (I told him at dinner in Boston) we are thrilled that they like the project and allow key devs to work on it - ==
----
Everyone should contribute to the discussion There is no division between devs and non devs - there is no special authority who bestows the title “developer” - it’s just based on what code people run and who decides to run what they choose So for example, Kai is we don’t say “just do what the devs say” because there are no specific “devs” with any official role - just people who have done a lot of work and implemented the vision in the paper Anyone can be a community member who made dev Anyone on this channel and page can do whatever he wants.write code If he wants to convert it to And call themselves a channel to discuss the Xmen comics that's his business. dev No one has authority over any other We the right users and holders have the authority by deciding what code to tell other people how run So if you say “trust the devs” the first question one needs to run things they create. They are welcome ask is “who? / which devs” The way to create their own channel flush that out is by discussion Open and do what they want.free discussion There’s also no special authority for any other person - no ceo or founder or master node or author or dev has special power or authority
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
----
Tron:My understanding is that there was a Pull Request for legal items this is just open source codeRVN on Ledger. Tons of encryption messaging systems are open source --I don’t know if/when that will make it into production.And a hash is different
----
----
Tron:
There’s going to be lots of interesting opportunities. I think someone will build a marketplace for asset names.
----
- by running the Raven-at.exe wallet on every PC you own you automatically help strengthen the network--
- if you know a developer ask them to consider contributing to GitHub https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin there will be more and more need for dev help as we go---
- if you know others interested in open source projects, maybe they will download the wallet, mine or contribute---
- review bounties and work to complete some---
Tron:Sometimes it is cheaper to mine, and sometimes it is cheaper to buy. Right now it is cheaper to buy — until the diff adjusts. I wrote a paper on how the two are interlinked. https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoin-value-and- support the community bountiesmining-difficulty
- build independent apps on top of this chain (nearly everything that can or has been developed for Bitcoin from wallets to second layer projects to paper wallet generators can be implemented on the Ravencoin chain relatively easily) immediate advantages of this chain: low cost, fast 1 minute blocks, asic resistant, widely distributed---
- read the Cypherpunk Manifesto---
- --- Tron:Yes, we would like RVN to continue to be viable cash. We hope it gets used for rewards (paying all holders of your token in RVN), and for on-chain atomic swaps (paying for assets with RVN where the trade happens all at once). ---- Tron:I’m not 100% sure. It seems like we’re in a bear market — similar to 2014-2015. Some of it is being sold to buy into RVN, EOS, and ADA, or into ICOs which are still going strong outside the US. ----Tron:I agree - kinda dumb. It is a completely arbitrary line. Enforce rules against outright fraud, but let everyone invest their money any way they choose. ---- Tron:I think there will be sites listing assets for sale. We’ve put “forsale” and “forsale_price” keys in the metadata spec for this reason. Brokers could scan the chain and the meta data to build a website for exchanging asset names. ---- Tron:https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/master/assets/asset_metadata_spec.md ---- Tron:I will share the scripts to allow anyone to register any names they want. I’m excited to see what gets registered. ----Tron:Sending assets will require a small RVN fee. I’d love to get rid of the fee, but it opens up too many attacks that don’t cost anything. ---- Tron:It’s been wonderful chatting with all of you learn . Thanks for your support of RVN. I’m working on some python scripts that’ll let you create batches of assets (with others: associated meta data) from a Google spreadsheet or csv. I’ll make them available next week for everyone to play with. It’ll make it easier for anyone wanting to register multiple assets. == 03 Aug 2018 - Telegram == ''Some interesting postsfrom tron on telegram'' Tron:http://raven-blockchain.info/ext/getmoneysupply is stalled on an old block. Needs to be switched to: https://ravencoin.network/api/supply ----'' referring to testnet launch''Tron:Thanks. We had a few glitches that we're fixing, but overall it seems to be performing as expected. ---- Tron:Brace yourself. The limits of free speech are being tested. FREEDOM!!! ---- Tron:In the qt, go to Help->Debug, then the console tab, and type listassets ---- Tron:I'd be interested in knowing which ones it doesn't fulfill. It is portable, fungible, divisible, durable, transferable, and limited. USD is 5 of those 6. ---- Tron:Michael Any wallet, blogsexplorer, exhange, etc. can use the .png. It likely will not be built into the reference client because we don't want to be downloading and showing the types of images that could be added. If you've looked at the list of assets created on testnet, you'll understand our concern. ----'' referring to facilitating adoption''Tron:Adoption - ease of use, cross platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, iOs, Android) , and secure. ---- Tron:We hope assets will be tradable on decentralized exchanges. I think this will happen organically as soon as some real projects are using the tokens. ---- Tron:Medici has investments in about 14 different companies. I expect some of them will be able to use RVN, but RVN is not being developed in support of any particular project. It has larger ambitions to be a platform for asset issuance with multi-OS support and much easier to use than ERC20. ----Tron:Verhoven RVN should be a currency. We want it to have a value because phase 3 will allow paying token holders in RVN. Imagine a project that's profitable where the early supporters are rewarded (with RVN) based on the percentage of tokens they hold. ---- Tron:I'm not allowed to talk about tZero stuff. ---- Tron:I had experience with Counterparty, Mastercoin, colored coins, and open assets which had similar capabilities on top of Bitcoin. It was secure, but clunky because some bitcoin had to be sent with every asset, and the fees became prohibitively high last year. We've been able to fix these issues because we can make adjustments that the core Bitcoin developers can't make. ---- Tron:The ideas behind the project and using the blockchain for tokenizing assets came from Bruce Fenton, videos as well as the project name and tutorialslogo.
----
Tron:
It isn't one algorithm each blocks exciting. It is 16 algorithms where 8 bytes (16 nibbles) determine the order I'm a huge fan of everything that's happening in the hashingcrypto space. I think the Ravencoin community is the best! 16 algos are used in I feel honored and blessed to be a chain every block. The order part of those 16 algos are detemined by the hash of the previous block which is unpredictableproject. I really want it to succeed.
----
'' in reference to some significant purchases seen recently on cb ''
Tron:
