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==11 Nov 2018 - Discord 2 ==
Economics of token creation - raven ends up being exactly the same issuance schedule as Bitcoin but with this perpetual drain on total supply in the form of whatever is burned.
That-/ and the fact that it’s real 100% pow coins getting burned - that means RVN assets have sort of a neat double POW / a real asset (energy) has been burned to allow assets to exist
This gives them value. Not much, it’s tiny. But it does exist and that’s very different than other projects and very fascinating.
==09 Nov 2018 - Discord 2 ==
Talking your own book is exactly ethical and legal— especially if disclosed. It’s one of the purest form of ethical interaction in commerce.
Some had to not only risk public reputation to support this coin but also give miners over $ of my capital to get the coins we own. So a miner could have dumped on us and I’d be the one conned.
Someone being well known or ostk backing some dev is also not relevant. Oprah or Andreas could mention this coin for five seconds and instantly have more influence than paper authors. If Greg Maxwell came and said something was a security risk, people would listen etc etc. that’s how a real open source project works.
In a fair launch like this it’s almost impossible to have one party have the upper hand. That’s not marketing talk or something to pump ravens structure — that’s just the truth.
Projects with a fair & open launch are literally a gift to the users — anything created from those projects is created by fair work to the people. It’s absolutely incomparable to something that raised money.
Nothing wrong with raising money by the way but it’s utterly and completely different from giving away something for free. It’s decentralized versus centralized. Permissioned versus free.
It’s the very core of our industry. A foundational core of what open source / decentralized/ cypherpunk networks can be.
Now ravencoin may be stupid, a bad idea, it may fail, it may break, it may have unforeseen problems or it might just be outpaced by any of a dozen projects trying to do the same. All those are potentially valid debates. —- but there’s just no reasonable way to say this project wasn’t fair. It’s provable on the blockchain that this was the most widely participated in and fastest growing network in history.
One may think raven is a weak project but it’s fairness is completely undeniable— if someone doesn’t believe that then they either don’t understand or believe in crypto or they don’t fully understand how this project works.
By the way:: we need to spread that far and wide. People should understand that this is their project — anyone can build on it
All this work we’ve done:: it’s free! All the code, the network — all that’s been invested — it all belongs to all members of the community. Anyone can use it and any one can benefit from this network.
Now for 500 RVN you can create a permanent asset backed by this absolutely massive amount of hashpower. That asset can do all kinds of cool stuff.
This is amazing. People don’t even see it yet.
The structure is a key part. No leaders, no rulers, no centralized parties. That’s best practices. It’s harder.
==17 Oct 2018 - Discord 2 ==
New folks be sure to
1) download the latest wallet - recognize that this is YOUR project - it’s open source and NOT controlled by any specific people - you can build on this and use it without permission!
2) start mining — with a gpu you can get some coins to use and reserve names with but even if not then it still helps the network
3) running a full mining node helps strengthen the coin and helps everyone
4) download testnet NOW and mess with creating assets (!) this way you are ready for:
5) be ready to create real assets after mainnet launches on Oct 31 - you only get one shot at each asset name
6) register names you can use (if you register a brand name please consider giving it to the brand owner if they ask, this helps the network)
7) imho best early tokens will be game and experiments - fun things — this is still early stage and experimental — will be ready for things like securities once lots of testing in the live world — don’t take unwise financial risks - this is an experiment!- have fun and build something cool
== 05 Oct 2018 - Discord 2 ==
The entire structure of ravencoin is VERY different from almost every other project — so it takes a lot of learning
Thanks to all who participate
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the thing is that Ravencoin is a protocol not a company — this is why no partnerships -// not because they aren’t valuable but because they are not necessary
Ravencoin doesn’t have partnerships with companies because 1) there’s no one to make such a partnership 2) the companies and devs wanting to build on this don’t need anyone’s permission - they can just build
This is a good model — imho it’s the best model
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Finding the right balance of how much to talk about this project is hard
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Software is allowed to be centralized.
When people say this isn’t it’s not because they are lying to pretend something — it’s because it’s accurate.
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The main misunderstanding seems to be that ravencoin is controlled or directed by Medici or tZero
It’s just not the case
This isn’t some claim that someone is trying to make to comply with some rule — its the actual truth. Also there is no law that this would be relevant for — the idea that a company working on an open source project “makes it a security” is silly and it’s super insulting
Whether raven is centrally controlled or has corporate involvement / oversight / investment etc do not make it a security anyway — that entire line of thinking is based on faulty logic and not understanding now Ravencoin works or was issued
Ravencoin was released for free exactly like Litecoin — because it was never sold it was not an offering
Even if it had one person as a ceo and even if that one person worked for Medici it would not matter —- still not a security
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my time doesn’t belong to you. Usually when people write articles and mention someone they get quotes from them and check for accuracy first —- I do what I can to give accurate info.
I waste hours on this and the only result is time wasted
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It doesn’t matter if something it centralized
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That doesn’t make it a security
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A coin being centralized or controlled by a company matters when the company or coin raises money - a project like Raven is completely different
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there’s nothing whatsoever “hinging” on that — that’s crazy talk.
No reasonable or knowledgeable person I’ve heard of considers RVN a security. If they do then :shrug:♂️ Litecoin and Bitcoin would be as well. It’s insane
... no — not at all.
Ridiculous
This all stems from people who don’t understand securities
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There’s tons of info out there
Not sure why people assume a conspiracy
There’s no one “at the top” There’s no one “worried”
It’s REALLLY key to understand that this is an open source, decentralized project —- there is no person or people or corporation running it
There is no conspiracy etc
People just work in their own interests
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>>>>Ravencoin is not an entity at all <<<<
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What matters is whether ravencoin can and does work
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Crap projects have an interest in promoting “partnerships” and stuff — actual protocols don’t
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''(In reference (I think) to Medici / Overstock / RVN)'' I’ve said 100 times that they aren’t related — even made videos about it
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Rvn is better than ever - amazing - one of the strongest projects ever
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Because raven isn’t like that and isn’t a corporate project with “deals” and “agreements” / joint ventures and that kind of ico crap
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Medici donates dev time
Which is great
But people assume much more of a corporate tie
Which is a shame
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Not a gift from MV
MV gifts some dev
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Big difference
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There’s an impression that tZero and raven fit together in some special way or work together or that one platform is being designed for the other
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''(In reference to an article speculating on the connection between various OSTK / MV projects and RVN)'' thanks! I’m not a fan of the screen shot from discord — I’ve tried to make clear many times that the projects really are not related — that screen shot taken on its own and out of the context of its convo seems like I’m winking and being coy or something imho
Basically it was in reply to people who think the opposite: which is that tZero has nothing to do with rvn and will never list it because they are competitors or something
Neither is true
It’s really not a corporate coin -/ existed before anyone at tZero heard of it and before I joined the board
There’s no team of folks at tZero working on raven and it defiantly wasn’t designed by tZero or created for some tZero purpose
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Yes but ostk owns a mess of stuff and there’s no major direction from ostk to any portfolio cos to support ravencoin
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TZero and ravencoin are much less related than people assume
== 23 Sept 2018 - Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference ==
Title: Global Ledgers: Scaling & Capacity for Legacy Securities Systems in the Age of Atomic Swaps
Conference: Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference, Riga, Sep 22-23
Bruce talks about the history of securities, it's current problems, and block chain.
Talk at: https://youtu.be/D2WXxgZ8h-0?t=1h48m23s
Slides at: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1043833386257854464.html
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Bruce Fenton (Discord):
I didn’t mention Raven because as soon as you mention a specific product at certain events people stop listening and are closed minded
Also so many people don’t even understand tokenized securities that it’s best to explain that first
Once they understand this concept then Rvn makes more sense
== 12 Sept 2018 - Telegram ==
Bruce Fenton:
Because this is protocol development not something like an ICO scam
Ravencoin is a protocol — that’s it — it’s software
There is NO ONE to “make announcements” or “sign partnerships”
It’s open source - for all community members to contribute how they wish — this is a VERY VERY different model than centralized projects who did ICOs etc
If you are expecting centralized sales, marketing, announcements — that will never happen with this project and people should know that
What the project does do is focus on building secure and useful software— anyone can contribute and decide if they want to run that software
== 25 Aug 2018 - Discord 2 ==
consensus works in open source by open discussion over what code to run
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Everyone should contribute to the discussion
There is no division between devs and non devs - there is no special authority who bestows the title “developer” - it’s just based on what code people run and who decides to run what they choose
So we don’t say “just do what the devs say” because there are no specific “devs” with any official role - just people who have done a lot of work and implemented the vision in the paper
Anyone can be a dev
Anyone on this page can write code
And call themselves a dev
No one has authority over any other
We the users and holders have the authority by deciding what code to run
So if you say “trust the devs” the first question one needs to ask is “who? / which devs”
The way to flush that out is by discussion
Open and free discussion
There’s also no special authority for any other person - no ceo or founder or master node or author or dev has special power or authority
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But main point is that this is open source — there is no authority
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We don’t want to ever discourage discussion — especially over security related issues
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All this project is is a group of people choosing to run code based on what they think Ravencoin means and what code is effective for that definition — every person has the right to discuss what they think that vision is or means
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The term hoi polloi is funny but it’s the antithesis of what open source is about — there is no “commoners” or higher class of people
There’s no special category called developers
It’s not ideal to say that people should defer to devs — that’s got a lot of issues I can explain —
what if a new dev joins tomorrow and creates the code to change the supply to 5 trillion with an insta mine of 1 trillion to himself and burning all addresses bringing in R5?
Would you say “stay in your lane, don’t discuss forks”? Of course not - it’s not what the coin is
It’s super relevant and key to discuss things like hard forks — any hard fork changes the consensus mechanism and the rules which everyone on the network previously agreed to
So it’s really a big responsibility for every user to know and care what all code changes are
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There’s also a HUGE difference between non technical people discussing technical matters and overall DESIGN matters
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You won’t see me talking specific code almost ever — it’s not my area of expertise
But overall economics, functionality and design is an area of expertise I have for this coin — Andy one can develop expertise and have opinions on the direction — anyone can choose to listen or not - and run what they want based on a combo of vision and capabilities and functions with the specific code
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Well this is why consensus is so important
Just something to plan for — for the future
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We can all continually improve the quality of review of code changes
Bitcoin
Bitcoin system has worked best and that’s what Ravencoin is developed after
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Bitcoin has made many leaps forward on this - there are lots of contributors and discussions
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@name — well one thing is that there isn’t and shouldn’t be much of a line between “devs” and “the community” —- devs ARE the community and the community is devs in this project — there is no separate wall
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You don’t need to just “speak with a Bitcoin dev” you can BE a Bitcoin dev by simply submitting code
Secret sauce of Bitcoin is no leaders
No authority
Consensus
Same with Ravencoin-
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The system is working well as it is — I don’t see any problems at all — just giving thoughts on best practices and ideas for the future — there are several things we learned from this hard fork which can be improved on next time - mainly around communicating
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There’s some bad habits from ICOS where people come in to protocol projects looking for leaders or thinking a central authority makes all decisions
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It’s wise to plan for contentious forks
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It’s wise to plan for contentious forks
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And have healthy debate over all changes
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Forks also present a risk — every code change presents a possibility of unforeseen consequences
== 14 Aug 2018 - Telegram ==
Chatturga:
The v2.0.3 binaries are available to download on the ravencoin github. Assuming that everything continues to run smoothly, and no significant bugs need to be addressed, this is the version that will activate DGW and BIP9/RIP2 consensus voting for the asset layer. The devs recommend updating to this version soon (before block 338778), with a particular emphasis toward pool owners and exchanges. I'll reach out to those people at the end of the day since the devs want to do a bit more testing.
https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/releases/tag/v2.0.3
== 05 Aug 2018 - Telegram ==
'' Tron ''
Tron:
Ravencoin is a protocol platform for assets and will work with anybody's infrastructure. Additional requirements can always be added by exchanges, or issuers, but are not native to the asset protocol.
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Tron:
You’re absolutely right. We are watching the issue closely. To put it in perspective though, our block times have been roughly 1.5x the speed of BTC during the worst of it. We have already switched to DGW on testnet and Ravencoin is slated to move to DGW on mainnet at the end of October. Our primary concern is not the code, that’s already done. Our primary concern is not allowing the chain to split. A chain split would cause far more damage and confusion than 5 minute blocks. The diff swings are a result of being profitable, then not, then profitable again, in an undamped oscillation. DGW will fix it, but it requires a hard fork where everyone must upgrade the software. This carries some risk.
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Tron:
x16r is the hashing algorithm, and is different than the difficulty adjustment algorithm. It will still be x16r. The difficulty adjustment tries to make it so it is 1 minute blocks no matter how many cpus/gpus are mining. Currently it adjusts by looking back 2016 blocks and making a percentage adjustment to bring it inline. There is a 4x limit, which we are close to hitting. It isn’t good but it shouldn’t get much worse.
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Tron:
RVN will still be RVN. The problem is that anyone that doesn’t upgrade when the algo switches over, will be on a different chain. Imagine the problems if CryptoBridge doesn’t upgrade, or Cryptopia, etc. and they have a different view. A hard fork is just a software upgrade, but it is really important that certain nodes upgrade. We have a managed upgrade already scheduled for the end of Oct that lets everyone decide on their own whether to upgrade and when enough mining nodes have upgraded, it seamlessly switches over at a set percentage.
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Tron:
No, shorter block times aren’t the problem. Rentable hashpower, and multipools which auto-redirect hashpower to the most profitable coin makes it more difficult to calibrate. That’s what changed.
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Tron:
The longest chain is the winner. We just need to make sure it is crystal clear which one that is. If we have 1/2 mining power on one chain and 1/2 on another, it gets murky. If that ever happens, just don’t transfer RVN during that time and you’ll be fine. And, if you’re mining, make sure you’re on the longest chain.
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Tron:
DGW will go a long way towards that. We actually want increased hashing, we just don’t want it coming and going in multi-day intervals.
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Tron:
I don’t think miners using a pool will need to change anything. Just make sure the pool you’re using has upgraded whenever the software is upgraded. Make sure you’re using the latest version to view/store/transfer your RVN.
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Tron:
My understanding is that there was a Pull Request for RVN on Ledger. I don’t know if/when that will make it into production.
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Tron:
Yes, unix (linux), Mac, and Windows. We need to make sure the client cross-compiles for all of them.
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Tron:
Yeah, there were some awful asset names. I imagine that some of the web explorers and asset marketplaces will want to run names through a filter.
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Tron:
There’s going to be lots of interesting opportunities. I think someone will build a marketplace for asset names.
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Tron:
There’s really only one chain. The problem is that when you change the diff algo, then the version of the software using the old algo sees only old algo blocks as valid, and software using the algo only sees new algo blocks as valid. The “real” one SHOULD be the new algo chain, but there’s no BOSS that says you can’t run older software. So it is really up the users to upgrade and all agree to use the newer software. I can’t compel anyone to upgrade, but it would make economic sense for everyone to use the new software. We can write software that doesn’t change the algorithm until it sees that most miners have upgraded because we can put a version number in the blocks and count the mined blocks. That’s what BIP9 does — Google it if you’re interested in how it works.
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We’re hiring like crazy. Most of our hires are for tZero, Medici, and Bitsy. If you’re a great developer, you should apply. Bruce is in NH and he visits Utah and we visit him in NH.
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Tron:
Yes. I don’t know how trademark rules would apply. I fought two trademark battles where I felt I was in the right. I won one, and folded the other against a giant “perfect” word processing company.
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Tron:
There is support for that. I’m not in favor of that, in general, but it did make sense for our asset hard fork.
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Tron:
I hope not, because I think it would devalue RVN, but it is certainly a possibility. Interestingly enough, anyone who had RVN before that fork would have RVN and RVC, but I still think it would would be a net negative overall.
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Tron:
Sometimes it is cheaper to mine, and sometimes it is cheaper to buy. Right now it is cheaper to buy — until the diff adjusts. I wrote a paper on how the two are interlinked. https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoin-value-and-mining-difficulty
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Tron:
Bruce and I agree that it doesn’t need shilling. Eventually, we’ll need to let more people know it exists and that it is a platform they can build on, but that isn’t even true until the end of October when assets activate on mainnet.
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Tron:
If there’s a Raven Classic, it probably wont have asset support.
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Tron:
Yes, we would like RVN to continue to be viable cash. We hope it gets used for rewards (paying all holders of your token in RVN), and for on-chain atomic swaps (paying for assets with RVN where the trade happens all at once).
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Tron:
I’m not 100% sure. It seems like we’re in a bear market — similar to 2014-2015. Some of it is being sold to buy into RVN, EOS, and ADA, or into ICOs which are still going strong outside the US.
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Tron:
I agree - kinda dumb. It is a completely arbitrary line. Enforce rules against outright fraud, but let everyone invest their money any way they choose.
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Tron:
I think there will be sites listing assets for sale. We’ve put “forsale” and “forsale_price” keys in the metadata spec for this reason. Brokers could scan the chain and the meta data to build a website for exchanging asset names.
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Tron:
https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/master/assets/asset_metadata_spec.md
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Tron:
I will share the scripts to allow anyone to register any names they want. I’m excited to see what gets registered.
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Tron:
Sending assets will require a small RVN fee. I’d love to get rid of the fee, but it opens up too many attacks that don’t cost anything.
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Tron:
It’s been wonderful chatting with all of you. Thanks for your support of RVN. I’m working on some python scripts that’ll let you create batches of assets (with associated meta data) from a Google spreadsheet or csv. I’ll make them available next week for everyone to play with. It’ll make it easier for anyone wanting to register multiple assets.
== 03 Aug 2018 - Telegram ==
''Some interesting posts from tron on telegram''
Tron:
http://raven-blockchain.info/ext/getmoneysupply is stalled on an old block. Needs to be switched to: https://ravencoin.network/api/supply
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'' referring to testnet launch''
Tron:
Thanks. We had a few glitches that we're fixing, but overall it seems to be performing as expected.
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Tron:
Brace yourself. The limits of free speech are being tested. FREEDOM!!!
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Tron:
In the qt, go to Help->Debug, then the console tab, and type listassets
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Tron:
I'd be interested in knowing which ones it doesn't fulfill. It is portable, fungible, divisible, durable, transferable, and limited. USD is 5 of those 6.
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Tron:
Michael Any wallet, explorer, exhange, etc. can use the .png. It likely will not be built into the reference client because we don't want to be downloading and showing the types of images that could be added. If you've looked at the list of assets created on testnet, you'll understand our concern.
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'' referring to facilitating adoption''
Tron:
Adoption - ease of use, cross platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, iOs, Android) , and secure.
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Tron:
We hope assets will be tradable on decentralized exchanges. I think this will happen organically as soon as some real projects are using the tokens.
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Tron:
Medici has investments in about 14 different companies. I expect some of them will be able to use RVN, but RVN is not being developed in support of any particular project. It has larger ambitions to be a platform for asset issuance with multi-OS support and much easier to use than ERC20.
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Tron:
Verhoven RVN should be a currency. We want it to have a value because phase 3 will allow paying token holders in RVN. Imagine a project that's profitable where the early supporters are rewarded (with RVN) based on the percentage of tokens they hold.
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Tron:
I'm not allowed to talk about tZero stuff.
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Tron:
I had experience with Counterparty, Mastercoin, colored coins, and open assets which had similar capabilities on top of Bitcoin. It was secure, but clunky because some bitcoin had to be sent with every asset, and the fees became prohibitively high last year. We've been able to fix these issues because we can make adjustments that the core Bitcoin developers can't make.
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Tron:
The ideas behind the project and using the blockchain for tokenizing assets came from Bruce Fenton, as well as the project name and logo.
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Tron:
I'm in talks with the leadership and developers on that project. We've agreed that Ravencoin is great once they're tokenizing the land. First stages are about recording ownership and Ravencoin doesn't fit that use case as well.
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Tron:
I've talked to lots of companies about their projects on RVN. Two game companies, one tokenized real-estate company, and a VC company that wants to do tokenized Reg A+ offerings.
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Tron:
I created a crypto accounting system called CoinCPA -- look for the podcasts from 2014. I was an early employee of Tzero. I'm a Tzero advisor. I worked for crypto company out of Hong Kong. I've helped Spera, and Bitsy which are portfolio companies of Medici Ventures.
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Tron:
I do have some coins. If anything bad happens to the Ravencoin chain, it will affect me personally.
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Tron:
It's exciting. I'm a huge fan of everything that's happening in the crypto space. I think the Ravencoin community is the best! I feel honored and blessed to be a part of the project. I really want it to succeed.
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'' in reference to some significant purchases seen recently on cb ''
Tron:
I can say for certain it isn't me. It really don't think it's Patrick. I don't think it's Bruce, but I don't know that.
==31 July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
Aside from this Tzero is also an exchange which will trade security tokens
==11 July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
