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{{#seo:
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|title=Ravencoin Wiki: Fenton Files
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|keywords=Ravencoin Fenton files
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|description=A page capturing some of the chat posts from Bruce Fenton and the core team developers on the community chat servers. Not comprehensive, but covers most of the more important discussions.
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}}
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This page aims to capture some of the thoughts from [https://twitter.com/brucefenton Bruce Fenton] and some of the core devs about [http://ravencoin.org RavenCoin], it's purpose and future. It's not comprehensive, just some of the interesting comments spotted on the community chats.
 
This page aims to capture some of the thoughts from [https://twitter.com/brucefenton Bruce Fenton] and some of the core devs about [http://ravencoin.org RavenCoin], it's purpose and future. It's not comprehensive, just some of the interesting comments spotted on the community chats.
  
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__TOC__
 
__TOC__
  
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== 6 May 2018 - Telegram ==
+
==11 Nov 2018 - Discord 2 ==
−
''(Talking about fair launch)''
+
 
−
Bruce Fenton:
+
Economics of token creation - raven ends up being exactly the same issuance schedule as Bitcoin but with this perpetual drain on total supply in the form of whatever is burned.
−
That’s false — the network had 4500 miners by the time of the BitcoinTalk announcement
+
 
 +
That-/ and the fact that it’s real 100% pow coins getting burned - that means RVN assets have sort of a neat double POW / a real asset (energy) has been burned to allow assets to exist
 +
 
 +
This gives them value.  Not much, it’s tiny.  But it does exist and that’s very different than other projects and very fascinating.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
 
 +
==09 Nov 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
Talking your own book is exactly ethical and legal— especially if disclosed.  It’s one of the purest form of ethical interaction in commerce.
 +
Some had to not only risk public reputation to support this coin but also give miners over $ of my capital to get the coins we own.  So a miner could have dumped on us and I’d be the one conned.
 +
Someone being well known or ostk backing some dev is also not relevant. Oprah or Andreas could mention this coin for five seconds and instantly have more influence than paper authors. If Greg Maxwell came and said something was a security risk, people would listen etc etc.  that’s how a real open source project works.
 +
In a fair launch like this it’s almost impossible to have one party have the upper hand. That’s not marketing talk or something to pump ravens structure — that’s just the truth.
 +
Projects with a fair & open launch are literally a gift to the users — anything created from those projects is created by fair work to the people.  It’s absolutely incomparable to something that raised money.
 +
 
 +
Nothing wrong with raising money by the way  but it’s utterly and completely different from giving away something for free.    It’s decentralized versus centralized.  Permissioned versus free.
 +
 
 +
It’s the very core of our industry. A foundational core of what open source / decentralized/ cypherpunk networks can be.
 +
 
 +
Now ravencoin may be stupid, a bad idea, it may fail, it may break, it may have unforeseen problems or it might just be outpaced by any of a dozen projects trying to do the same.  All those are potentially valid debates. —- but there’s just no reasonable way to say this project wasn’t fair.  It’s provable on the blockchain that this was the most widely participated in and fastest growing network in history.
 +
 
 +
One may think raven is a weak project but it’s fairness is completely undeniable— if someone doesn’t believe that then they either don’t understand or believe in crypto or they don’t fully understand how this project works.
 +
 
 +
By the way:: we need to spread that far and wide.  People should understand that this is their project — anyone can build on it
 +
 
 +
All this work we’ve done:: it’s free!  All the code, the network — all that’s been invested — it all belongs to all members of the community.  Anyone can use it and any one can benefit from this network.
 +
 
 +
Now for 500 RVN you can create a permanent asset backed by this absolutely massive amount of hashpower.  That asset can do all kinds of cool stuff.
  
−
This whole idea that something is only fair once it’s posted on every forum on the Internet is preposterous -/ this is open source and a community effort — anyone who wanted to post on Bitcoin Talk could - I personally didn’t post because I wasn’t aware of the Ann section and find BitcoinTalk in general to be a very low quality forum
+
This is amazing. People don’t even see it yet.
  
−
The accusations that this was somehow shady are doubly preposterous to anyone who actually understands math.   
+
The structure is a key part.  No leaders, no rulers, no centralized parties.  That’s best practices.  It’s harder.
  
−
There were 70 miners within a day and 1200 within 4 days or so —- if you claim that me or anyone else purposely delayed the announcement in one stupid forum for financial gain that’s utterly ludicrous. 
 
  
−
Work out the numbers:  less than 1/3 of a percent of the coins were mined in that period — do you really think that me and the devs and Patrick Byrne and all the other people who put years of time and millions of dollars into this sat on the sidelines plotting so we could get a mining advantage on 9 days worth of coins worth less than $2k at the time?
 
  
−
This about it it.  Follow the money and motivation
+
==17 Oct 2018 - Discord 2 ==
  
−
It’s a stupid accusation
+
New folks be sure to  
−
----
 
−
Bruce Fenton:
 
−
It wasn’t fair to non English speakers either
 
−
----
 
−
Bruce Fenton:
 
−
Or people without computers
 
−
----
 
−
Bruce Fenton:
 
−
The launch was announced MONTHS ahead of time - posted on medium, posted on twitter — announced at four major public events and posted publicly
 
  
−
THIS is why it grew so fast — obviously if 4500 people mined then that means far more than that found out about it
+
1) download the latest wallet - recognize that this is YOUR project - it’s open source and NOT controlled by any specific people - you can build on this and use it without permission!
  
−
== 5 May 2018 - Discord 2==
+
2) start mining — with a gpu you can get some coins to use and reserve names with but even if not then it still helps the network
  
−
[[The road ahead]]
+
3) running a full mining node helps strengthen the coin and helps everyone
  
−
== 2 May 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
4) download testnet NOW and mess with creating assets (!) this way you are ready for:
−
Do you think we could raise a 1 million RVN bounty for someone to get RSK / Solidity working on the Ravencoin chain?
 
  
−
It would be a great complement to the upcoming code changes
+
5) be ready to create real assets after mainnet launches on Oct 31 - you only get one shot at each asset name
  
−
== 27 Apr 2018 - Telegram ==
+
6) register names you can use (if you register a brand name please consider giving it to the brand owner if they ask, this helps the network)
  
−
Bruce Fenton:
+
7) imho best early tokens will be game and experiments - fun things — this is still early stage and experimental — will be ready for things like securities once lots of testing in the live world — don’t take unwise financial risks - this is an experiment!- have fun and build something cool
−
One benefit to exchanges is that Ravencoin is not a security — its one of the very few fairly mined coins with no ICO.
 
  
−
== 27 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
== 05 Oct 2018 - Discord 2 ==
−
Money isn’t a problem for this project - it’s well funded
 
  
−
== 20 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
The entire structure of ravencoin is VERY different from almost every other project — so it takes a lot of learning
−
''(Talking about a Twitter [https://twitter.com/brucefenton/status/987340686327345152?s=19 live stream])''
+
Thanks to all who participate
 +
----
 +
the thing is that Ravencoin is a protocol not a company — this is why no partnerships -// not because they aren’t valuable but because they are not necessary
 +
Ravencoin doesn’t have partnerships with companies because 1) there’s no one to make such a partnership 2) the companies and devs wanting to build on this don’t need anyone’s permission - they can just build
  
−
I used Bitcoin (and Counterparty) as an example because it’s simple and lets people learn without being distracted by other issues.  
+
This is a good model — imho it’s the best model
 +
----
 +
Finding the right balance of how much to talk about this project is hard
 +
----
 +
Software is allowed to be centralized.
  
−
For people to believe in Ravencoin they first have to believe that this is possible.  This demo shows that you can indeed tokenize a security. 
+
When people say this isn’t it’s not because they are lying to pretend something — it’s because it’s accurate.
 +
----
 +
The main misunderstanding seems to be that ravencoin is controlled or directed by Medici or tZero
  
−
Using Bitcoin eliminates many objections from Bitcoin maximalists.  If I did the demo with Rvn then people likely go off topic on the algo or assume raven itself is an ICO or something like that. 
+
It’s just not the case
  
−
This way it’s simple and proves the basic concept.  
+
This isn’t some claim that someone is trying to make to comply with some rule — its the actual truth.   Also there is no law that this would be relevant for — the idea that a company working on an open source project “makes it a security” is silly and it’s super insulting
  
−
Once people get that securities CAN be tokenized then we can educate them about why this specific solution might work and what advantages and disadvantages it has. 
+
Whether raven is centrally controlled or has corporate involvement / oversight / investment etc do not make it a security anyway — that entire line of thinking is based on faulty logic and not understanding now Ravencoin works or was issued
  
−
Ravencoin is based partly on Counterparty and uses the codebase of Bitcoin — will add more features and eliminate some of the drawbacks Counterparty has.
+
Ravencoin was released for free exactly like Litecoin — because it was never sold it was not an offering
  
−
== 16 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
Even if it had one person as a ceo and even if that one person worked for Medici it would not matter —- still not a security
−
Potential Loss of private keys is a massive drawback of crypto -- but it's the same for Bitcoin or any digital asset -- people will need to have systems to secure keys or will want to trust 3rd parties to manage them for them
 
 
----
 
----
−
asset creators will be able to control how many tokens are
+
my time doesn’t belong to you.  Usually when people write articles and mention someone they get quotes from them and check for accuracy first —- I do what I can to give accurate info.
 +
 
 +
I waste hours on this and the only result is time wasted
 
----
 
----
−
I'm not sure how much of a policy they have just that the whole company is very supportive of Ravencoin -- so lots of family and friends of Overstock and Medici are early and strong supporters
+
 
 +
It doesn’t matter if something it centralized
 
----
 
----
−
Medici employees devs and allows employees to work on this
+
That doesn’t make it a security
 
----
 
----
−
Overstock owns Medici which I am on the board of
+
A coin being centralized or controlled by a company matters when the company or coin raises money - a project like Raven is completely different
 
----
 
----
−
Yes it's true the ceo of Overstock is a huge  supporter -- no doubt about it.
+
there’s nothing whatsoever “hinging” on that — that’s crazy talk.  
  
−
== 15 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
No reasonable or knowledgeable person I’ve heard of considers RVN a security.    If they do then :shrug:‍♂️ Litecoin and Bitcoin would be as well.  It’s insane
  
−
Biggest roadblocks is adoption and unforeseen technical hurdles - so biggest things a non dev can do is master the story and share it far and wide -- tell friends, tell devs, get people involved.  
+
... no — not at all.
  
−
This can change the world -- people need to be freed ton control their own wealth and that means not just cash but stocks as well.  This technology can do it.
+
Ridiculous
 +
 
 +
This all stems from people who don’t understand securities
 
----
 
----
−
Some advantages of tokenized securities I just posted on twitter
+
There’s tons of info out there
−
Anyone really interested in this project should definitely read up on how DTCC and Cede and co works
+
Not sure why people assume a conspiracy
 +
There’s no one “at the top”  There’s no one “worried”
 +
 
 +
It’s REALLLY key to understand that this is an open source, decentralized project —- there is no person or people or corporation running it
 +
 
 +
There is no conspiracy etc
 +
People just work in their own interests
 
----
 
----
−
Oskt/ medic / tZero is often misunderstood
+
>>>>Ravencoin is not an entity at all <<<<
 +
----
 +
What matters is whether ravencoin can and does work
  
−
Ostk owns Medici /- I am on the board of Medici --- Medici is a big supporter of this project
+
----
 +
Crap projects have an interest in promoting “partnerships” and stuff — actual protocols don’t
 +
----
 +
''(In reference (I think) to Medici / Overstock / RVN)''  I’ve said 100 times that they aren’t related — even made videos about it
 +
----
 +
Rvn is better than ever - amazing - one of the strongest projects ever
 +
----
 +
Because raven isn’t like that and isn’t a corporate project with “deals” and “agreements” / joint ventures and that kind of ico crap
 +
----
 +
Medici donates dev time
 +
Which is great
  
−
TZero is mutually acquainted but a separate thing -
 
  
 +
But people assume much more of a corporate tie
 +
 +
 +
Which is a shame
 
----
 
----
−
Ravencoin is Bitcoin but with commits approved based on preference of the blockchain serving as the rails for assets instead of cash or digital gold.
+
Not a gift from MV
  
 +
 +
MV gifts some dev
 
----
 
----
−
Well no one should be anything but proud to be involved in this.  There are very few projects which are fairly launched and fairly mined.  We all got together and built something pretty cool very quickly
+
Big difference
 
----
 
----
−
The common question of why we need this is because we think this way might work - that's all really
+
There’s an impression that tZero and raven fit together in some special way or work together or that one platform is being designed for the other
−
yes there will be a Ravencoin annual meeting
+
----
−
Mid October
+
''(In reference to an article speculating on the connection between various OSTK / MV projects and RVN)'' thanks!  I’m not a fan of the screen shot from discord — I’ve tried to make clear many times that the projects really are not related — that screen shot taken on its own and out of the context of its convo seems like I’m winking and being coy or something imho
 +
Basically it was in reply to people who think the opposite: which is that tZero has nothing to do with rvn and will never list it because they are competitors or something
 +
Neither is true
 +
 
 +
It’s really not a corporate coin -/ existed before anyone at tZero heard of it and before I joined the board
 +
 
 +
There’s no team of folks at tZero working on raven and it defiantly wasn’t designed by tZero or created for some tZero purpose
 
----
 
----
−
A blockchain can change the way gaming works.  This seems silly to people who focus on monetary aspects like Bitcoin --- but it's an entirely different thing. In game economies are real and have real value - these virtual items will have even more value if they become platform independent.  This benefits the creators and sellers of these game assets as well --  one drawback is potential speculation -- game developers should note that adding liquidity adds profit speculators who can harm game dynamics (bots, farmers, for profit players) -- this could be dealt with several ways
+
Yes but ostk owns a mess of stuff and there’s no major direction from ostk to any portfolio cos to support ravencoin
 
----
 
----
−
Crypto is a great equalizer.  With a project like this anyone can participate and code is judged on merit alone.
+
TZero and ravencoin are much less related than people assume
  
−
I bet a lot of devs will end up being anon
 
  
−
== 12 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 
  
−
Idea:  take the concepts from the paper and recent interviews w Tron etc and make them into a really well done PowerPoint / keynote
 
  
−
This would be open source and could be used by any community member to explain the project and concepts
 
  
−
First really key step is the text and outline to assure accuracy above all else. 
 
  
−
Once that part is set and the text is good we can put it into a good format, add graphics and simple explanatory animations
+
== 23 Sept 2018 - Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference ==
 +
Title: Global Ledgers: Scaling & Capacity for Legacy Securities Systems in the Age of Atomic Swaps
  
−
Can also have a FAQ section
+
Conference: Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference, Riga, Sep 22-23
  
−
I'd be happy to help anyone on this -- we should be able to use a section of github to place the explanatory text so it can be edited and updated over time
+
Bruce talks about the history of securities, it's current problems, and block chain.
  
 +
Talk at: https://youtu.be/D2WXxgZ8h-0?t=1h48m23s
  
−
== 12 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
Slides at: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1043833386257854464.html
  
−
It's possible that this community has built the largest and strongest decentralized network anyone has ever built in such a short time.
+
----
  
−
Does anyone know another which compares?  In terms of miners, nodes & other community metrics we have grown very fast.  Very few coins have a stronger network -- both Bitcoin and Eth took years to reach what you built in less than 100 days.  All 100% organic with no marketing and no central control.  It's incredible.    The future is bright.
+
Bruce Fenton (Discord):
−
----
+
 
−
No one can beat the power of an open source community.
+
I didn’t mention Raven because as soon as you mention a specific product at certain events people stop listening and are closed minded
 +
 
 +
Also so many people don’t even understand tokenized securities that it’s best to explain that first
 +
 
 +
Once they understand this concept then Rvn makes more sense
 +
 
 +
== 12 Sept 2018 - Telegram ==
 +
 
 +
 
 +
Bruce Fenton:
 +
Because this is protocol development not something like an ICO scam
 +
 
 +
Ravencoin is a protocol — that’s it — it’s software
 +
 
 +
There is NO ONE to “make announcements” or “sign partnerships”
 +
 
 +
It’s open source - for all community members to contribute how they wish — this is a VERY VERY different model than centralized projects who did ICOs etc
 +
 
 +
If you are expecting centralized sales, marketing, announcements — that will never happen with this project and people should know that
 +
 
 +
What the project does do is focus on building secure and useful software— anyone can contribute and decide if they want to run that software
 +
 
 +
== 25 Aug 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
consensus works in open source by open discussion over what code to run
  
−
== 8 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 
−
Ideally lots of companies and people will build on top of this protocol
 
 
----
 
----
−
Partnerships have some challenges
 
  
−
There isn't a way to make partnerships between the idea called Ravencoin & any organization because there isn't any organization or person able to make a partnership or speak on behalf of Ravencoin or sign agreements etc. 
+
Everyone should contribute to the discussion
  
−
It's a true open source project with no leaders or central control.
+
There is no division between devs and non devs - there is no special authority who bestows the title “developer” - it’s just based on what code people run and who decides to run what they choose
  
−
This makes things like partnerships impossible in the sense of how they are done by centralized coins. 
+
So we don’t say “just do what the devs say” because there are no specific “devs” with any official role - just people who have done a lot of work and implemented the vision in the paper
  
−
Ravencoin dev is like Bitcoin: there is no way for "Bitcoin" to sign a partnership-- even Bitcoin Core (which isn't really a thing) can't sign anything.
+
Anyone can be a dev
  
−
In Ravencoin everyone owns it and everyone can act as an individual and sign what they want.
+
Anyone on this page can write code
  
−
Ravencoin is a community project entirely built and controlled by the community the only "central" items are the name itself and all that represents is an idea that the community generally is behind. 
+
And call themselves a dev
  
−
The bad news with this structure is that it is weird, chaotic, hard to understand and hard to get used to... especially for people new to open source.
+
No one has authority over any other
  
−
"No leaders" sounds like some sort of new age techno babble -- but it's true -- for a real decentralized open source project like this there really is no central structure that can enter into deals etc.
+
We the users and holders have the authority by deciding what code to run
  
−
This type of structure is so unusual these days that most people who got into crypto within the last 2 years have never seen a real open source project.
+
So if you say “trust the devs” the first question one needs to ask is “who? / which devs”
  
−
The good news is that this structure enables everyone an equal playing field in building.  No one is working to enrich some select group who received awards or raised money.    Everyone who wants to participate can in whatever way they want
+
The way to flush that out is by discussion
  
−
== 7 Apr 2018 - Telegram ==
+
Open and free discussion
−
Tron:
 
−
Two more devs added to the team this week.  One more next week.
 
  
−
== 5 Apr 2018 - Telegram ==
+
There’s also no special authority for any other person - no ceo or founder or master node or author or dev has special power or authority
  
−
Bruce Fenton:
 
−
The scheduled hard fork upgrade will be around 7-8 months from now -- depends how long coding and testing take and how many people contribute to development and testing.
 
−
This hard fork will make the code changes which will allow the issuance of tokens
 
 
----
 
----
−
Bruce Fenton:
 
−
This project is open source so there is no one to pay for any marketing type of services.  If you read the papers and believe in the project then you can build businesses on this or drive your own economic interests
 
  
−
== 5 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
But main point is that this is open source — there is no authority
−
It's great for people who want to do more  -- if you are a hard working C++ dev you could end up having a massive effect on the code.
+
 
 
----
 
----
−
Someone asked if Ravencoin could "support ___effort"
 
  
−
The answer to every one of these questions is the same -- no because "Ravencoin" is not a centralized entity able to issue press releases or sign agreements or "support" anything --- it's just the name of the idea and code that a community is mining, developing or discussing.
+
We don’t want to ever discourage discussion — especially over security related issues
−
Individual people are all that can act in a decentralized open source system -- nothing is fully decentralized but this is the aim we strive for.
+
 
−
Ravencoin has no ability to support actions or do anything because it's not an entity  -- it's the name of an idea and code that the miners, developers and other community members generally agree on the purpose and structure of.
 
−
That sounds unusual or idealistic or phony to many - I get it, but it's actually the best way to develop
 
 
----
 
----
−
The main code is on a great track -- one huge area of opportunity is getting volunteer devs to work on second layer projects
 
  
−
RSK would be an awesome on
+
All this project is is a group of people choosing to run code based on what they think Ravencoin means and what code is effective for that definition — every person has the right to discuss what they think that vision is or means
−
LN another
+
 
−
These don't need permission from anyone for someone to work on -/ devs can all communicate
 
 
----
 
----
−
We need RSK & Solidity devs -- that capability can be worked on alongside the planned upgrade fork -- it would add a lot of capabilities to this protocol
 
  
−
== 4 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
The term hoi polloi is funny but it’s the antithesis of what open source is about — there is no “commoners” or higher class of people
  
−
Ravencoin's only marketing department is the community-- competing against a sea of scamcoins & ICOs w/ billions in ad budgets we are in an open source canoe canoe together. 
+
There’s no special category called developers
  
−
The protocol can't do press releases or similar BS --however it IS great to get the word out on what the tech & science is.
+
It’s not ideal to say that people should defer to devs — that’s got a lot of issues I can explain  —
  
−
There isn't anything to sell- imho it's a big mistake to discuss price so early which is why I never do.
+
what if a new dev joins tomorrow and creates the code to change the supply to 5 trillion with an insta mine of 1 trillion to himself and burning all addresses bringing in R5?
  
−
But it DOES make a lot of sense to share this info and explain it to people- more people will learn about it & contribute.
+
Would you say “stay in your lane, don’t discuss forks”?  Of course not - it’s not what the coin is
  
−
The metrics of this are entirely different from something like an ICO- with Ravencoin we don't share info to sell something but we can share for the sake of computer science.
+
It’s super relevant and key to discuss things like hard forks — any hard fork changes the consensus mechanism and the rules which everyone on the network previously agreed to  
  
−
The white paper isn't a marketing document designed to get money from people it's an actual real white paper: a technical scientific document open for peer review.  The purpose of the document is to create discussion, generate criticism; identify security & functionality holes and to invite contributors.  That's it.  There is zero mention of price.  Imho this is a much better way to build great tech.  If you build great tech it may have value.
+
So it’s really a big responsibility for every user to know and care what all code changes are
  
−
The diversity & strength of the community & dev is a good example of how open source can be more effective than corporate projects.
+
----
  
−
This protocol & idea is worth sharing --  there's such a sea of scams and ICOs out there that a "white paper" seems like a sales document because the term has been stolen by scammers to be used for marketing documents.  That's not ideal  -- it reduces discussion of a technical computer science paper
+
There’s also a HUGE difference between non technical people discussing technical matters and overall DESIGN matters
  
−
Perhaps one thing we can do is share the concepts in this paper and the main bullet points / ideas behind it -- this identifies a lot of use cases:
+
----
  
−
Game tokens for items you can move from game to game, securities tokens with dividends, message services etc etc -- all of this is new tech creating new possibilities & solutions.
+
You won’t see me talking specific code almost ever — it’s not my area of expertise
 +
 
 +
But overall economics, functionality and design is an area of expertise I have for this coin — Andy one can develop expertise and have opinions on the direction — anyone can choose to listen or not - and run what they want based on a combo of vision and capabilities and functions with the specific code
  
−
Sharing ideas gets even more great community members & contributors
 
 
----
 
----
−
so the devs are a combination of people - most are in Utah because Medici a while back allowed employees to work on open source & this project became popularly locally in SLC --  so Tron Black @Tron (who came up with most of the tech ideas), Jesse Empey @RavencoinDev and @cade  are in SLC -- most of the mining devs tend to live around NH because that's where we did the first meetups & announcements
 
  
−
== 4 Apr 2018 - Telegram ==
+
Well this is why consensus is so important
−
Bruce Fenton:
+
 
−
This project is open source so there is no one to pay for any marketing type of services.  If you read the papers and believe in the project then you can build businesses on this or drive your own economic interests
+
Just something to plan for — for the future
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Bruce Fenton:
 
−
The scheduled hard fork upgrade will be around 7-8 months from now -- depends how long coding and testing take and how many people contribute to development and testing.
 
  
−
This hard fork will make the code changes which will allow the issuance of tokens
 
  
−
== 4 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
We can all continually improve the quality of review of code changes
−
@everyone Volunteers wanted:  Volunteer to serve as liaison to exchanges.  Ravencoin is receiving a LOT of requests and interest from exchanges.  Unfortunately most request that an "official" representative contact them. Since this is decentralized and open source there is no official and there is no one "authorized" to deal with exchanges.
 
  
−
If someone from the community wants to volunteer to serve this role they can.
+
Bitcoin
−
Should be knowledgeable about tech/ dev and exchanges and able to help exchanges with tech issues, integration etc.
 
  
−
== 3 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
Bitcoin system has worked best and that’s what Ravencoin is developed after
−
Note on exchanges:  since this project is open source there is no central party to speak with exchanges.  ICOs and centralized corporate coins typically have marketers and others who serve this role. 
 
  
−
Since this coin had no premine or set aside the economics are different as there is no insider looking to dump presale coins or something because they don't exist. 
+
----
  
−
All exchange activity so far has been community driven.  There is no official party with an authority to deal with exchanges-/ that doesn't mean no one has the power --- it means everyone has the power.  This project belongs 100% to the community-- it was created by a community and remains that.
+
Bitcoin has made many leaps forward on this - there are lots of contributors and discussions
  
−
So anyone wishing to list this coin or do any other economic activity - go for it.  The project literally belongs to you as much as anyone if you are reading this.
 
 
----
 
----
−
Securities tokens with multiple share classes
 
  
−
Game items that can be removed from a game and printed onto a paper wallet
+
@name — well one thing is that there isn’t and shouldn’t be much of a line between “devs” and “the community” —- devs ARE the community and the community is devs in this project — there is no separate wall
  
−
Activist tokens which can be divisible and with built in messaging - so you can split a coin in to 10 and give it to 10 friends who will all receive whatever message
 
  
−
The possibilities are endless
+
----
  
−
== 2 Apr 2018 - Discord 2 ==
+
You don’t need to just “speak with a Bitcoin dev” you can BE a Bitcoin dev by simply submitting code
−
Discord channels, like other aspects of Ravencoin, don't have a centralized authority or controller.
 
  
−
ICOs, scam-coins and centralized corporate coins have controlled and managed chat channels run by paid marketing employees.
+
Secret sauce of Bitcoin is no leaders
  
−
Ravencoin is different. It's not run by a central team or person who tells people what to say or so.
+
No authority
  
−
Anyone can set up a chat, there is no "official" anything other than the Git and website.
+
Consensus
 +
 
 +
Same with Ravencoin-
  
−
If a majority of the community prefers one admin / mod style they can migrate to any banned.  If various groups from who have competing ideas or preferences then multiple groups can form.
 
 
----
 
----
−
Many people are so used to centralized scam coins that they don't know what to think when they see a real open source coin.
 
  
−
The internet is messy.  The opposite of control is chaos.  So some chaos is inevitable.  But it doesn't affect the protocol in any way.
+
The system is working well as it is — I don’t see any problems at all — just giving thoughts on best practices and ideas for the future — there are several things we learned from this hard fork which can be improved on next time - mainly around communicating
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
This is as intended
+
 
 +
There’s some bad habits from ICOS where people come in to protocol projects looking for leaders or thinking a central authority makes all decisions
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
It will all even out and work well
+
It’s wise to plan for contentious forks
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Have faith in the wisdom of crowds
+
 
 +
It’s wise to plan for contentious forks
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Does Bitcoin have an official chat?
+
 
 +
And have healthy debate over all changes
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
It's hard to have no one in charge and seems chaotic to not have control.  Many corporate coins have antiseptic and controlled chats which regularly censor criticism.
+
 
 +
Forks also present a risk — every code change presents a possibility of unforeseen consequences
 +
 
 +
== 14 Aug 2018 - Telegram ==
 +
 
 +
Chatturga:
 +
The v2.0.3 binaries are available to download on the ravencoin github.  Assuming that everything continues to run smoothly, and no significant bugs need to be addressed, this is the version that will activate DGW and BIP9/RIP2 consensus voting for the asset layer.  The devs recommend updating to this version soon (before block 338778), with a particular emphasis toward pool owners and exchanges.  I'll reach out to those people at the end of the day since the devs want to do a bit more testing.
 +
 
 +
https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/releases/tag/v2.0.3
 +
 
 +
== 05 Aug 2018 - Telegram ==
 +
'' Tron ''
 +
 
 +
Tron:
 +
Ravencoin is a protocol platform for assets and will work with anybody's infrastructure.  Additional requirements can always be added by exchanges, or issuers, but are not native to the asset protocol.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
the only thing official is the code and website.
 
  
−
The roadmap and white paper is an implementation that a group of devs supports --
+
Tron:
 +
You’re absolutely right.  We are watching the issue closely.  To put it in perspective though, our block times have been roughly 1.5x the speed of BTC during the worst of it.  We have already switched to DGW on testnet and Ravencoin is slated to move to DGW on mainnet at the end of October.  Our primary concern is not the code, that’s already done.  Our primary concern is not allowing the chain to split.  A chain split would cause far more damage and confusion than 5 minute blocks.  The diff swings are a result of being profitable, then not, then profitable again, in an undamped oscillation.  DGW will fix it, but it requires a hard fork where everyone must upgrade the software.  This carries some risk.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Yes -- but KYC/ AML isn't part of the protocol
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
x16r is the hashing algorithm, and is different than the difficulty adjustment algorithm.  It will still be x16r.  The difficulty adjustment tries to make it so it is 1 minute blocks no matter how many cpus/gpus are mining.  Currently it adjusts by looking back 2016 blocks and making a percentage adjustment to bring it inline.  There is a 4x limit, which we are close to hitting.  It isn’t good but it shouldn’t get much worse.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Ravencoin will allow easy creation of assets such as tokens
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
RVN will still be RVN.  The problem is that anyone that doesn’t upgrade when the algo switches over, will be on a different chain.  Imagine the problems if CryptoBridge doesn’t upgrade, or Cryptopia, etc. and they have a different view.  A hard fork is just a software upgrade, but it is really important that certain nodes upgrade.  We have a managed upgrade already scheduled for the end of Oct that lets everyone decide on their own whether to upgrade and when enough mining nodes have upgraded, it seamlessly switches over at a set percentage.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Anyone can post a new ANN
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
No, shorter block times aren’t the problem.  Rentable hashpower, and multipools which auto-redirect hashpower to the most profitable coin makes it more difficult to calibrate.  That’s what changed.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
There's no "core" really
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
The longest chain is the winner.  We just need to make sure it is crystal clear which one that is.  If we have 1/2 mining power on one chain and 1/2 on another, it gets murky.  If that ever happens, just don’t transfer RVN during that time and you’ll be fine.  And, if you’re mining, make sure you’re on the longest chain.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
you seem to think I have some special powers -- it's your coin as much as it is mjne.
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
DGW will go a long way towards that.  We actually want increased hashing, we just don’t want it coming and going in multi-day intervals.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Well if so then that's even more reason to not do it.  :smiley: the "core team" is anyone who wants to be.
 
  
−
This isn't hand waiving -- it's the structure of a real decentralized open source project.
+
Tron:
 +
I don’t think miners using a pool will need to change anything.  Just make sure the pool you’re using has upgraded whenever the software is upgraded.  Make sure you’re using the latest version to view/store/transfer your RVN.
  
−
There are no leaders or authorities.  Only merit and individuals choosing who to follow and what code to run
 
 
----
 
----
−
I choose to support this project because it's decentralized
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
My understanding is that there was a Pull Request for RVN on Ledger.  I don’t know if/when that will make it into production.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
There are 1000 corporate coins who have very neat and clean comms channels: everyone agrees, a few people decide on a message and the people are fed a line.
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
Yes, unix (linux), Mac, and Windows.  We need to make sure the client cross-compiles for all of them.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Anyone can create these tools
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
Yeah, there were some awful asset names.  I imagine that some of the web explorers and asset marketplaces will want to run names through a filter.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
There is no central authority over Bitcoin comms
+
 
−
It's impossible
+
Tron:
 +
There’s going to be lots of interesting opportunities.  I think someone will build a marketplace for asset names.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Ravencoin is YOUR coin. It is the people's coin. A real open source and decentralized project.
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
There’s really only one chain.  The problem is that when you change the diff algo, then the version of the software using the old algo sees only old algo blocks as valid, and software using the algo only sees new algo blocks as valid.  The “real” one SHOULD be the new algo chain, but there’s no BOSS that says you can’t run older software.   So it is really up the users to upgrade and all agree to use the newer software.  I can’t compel anyone to upgrade, but it would make economic sense for everyone to use the new software.   We can write software that doesn’t change the algorithm until it sees that most miners have upgraded because we can put a version number in the blocks and count the mined blocks.  That’s what BIP9 does — Google it if you’re interested in how it works.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
The decentralized nature enables this coin to do WAY more than a centralized corporate coin or ICO can do.
 
  
−
Look at the results!!
+
We’re hiring like crazy.  Most of our hires are for tZero, Medici, and Bitsy.  If you’re a great developer, you should apply.  Bruce is in NH and he visits Utah and we visit him in NH.
  
−
Look what you badasses have built in less than 3 months!
+
----
  
−
NO ONE can duplicate this.  IBM has spent $4.5 billion on its internal blockchain and we beat them in EVERY metric that matters:  better code, stronger network, bigger community etc etc.
+
Tron:
 +
Yes.  I don’t know how trademark rules would apply. I fought two trademark battles where I felt I was in the right.  I won one, and folded the other against a giant “perfect” word processing company.
  
−
Why?  Because people can smell authenticity a mile a way.  Then know that  the hundreds of scam coins don't actually belong to them.  This coin does.
+
----
  
−
Your efforts in Ravencoin are building what you wish - the strength of this project will not depend on 20 marketers or lawyers in some ivory tower office but the efforts of the thousands of people who've put in time, resources and sweat to build this this.  
+
Tron:
 +
There is support for that.  I’m not in favor of that, in general, but it did make sense for our asset hard fork.
  
−
With this grassroots decentralization we have some drawbacks but overall massive advantages.  
+
----
 +
 
 +
Tron:
 +
I hope not, because I think it would devalue RVN, but it is certainly a possibility.  Interestingly enough, anyone who had RVN before that fork would have RVN and RVC, but I still think it would would be a net negative overall.
  
−
This is why we will prevail.
 
 
----
 
----
−
We are likely the fastest growing network in history of crypto.  We are also a top 10 of fairly mined coins in 3 months.
+
 
−
Decentralization works.
+
Tron:
−
----
+
Sometimes it is cheaper to mine, and sometimes it is cheaper to buy.   Right now it is cheaper to buy — until the diff adjusts.   I wrote a paper on how the two are interlinked.  https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoin-value-and-mining-difficulty
−
The wisdom of this crowd is stronger than any 100 people
+
 
−
----
 
−
Together we can do amazing things.  Wish not for leaders or control.  Instead make the changes you want and ask for help.
 
−
----
 
−
No one has any power that you don't also have.
 
−
If you want something to happen don't wait for permission. You have it. Just do it.
 
−
----
 
−
Tuesday will be a Roadmap and an expanded paper based on a combo of the original Medium article and the roadmap
 
−
----
 
−
there are drawbacks to a decentralized system like this -- but advantages as well.  No one does or should have control
 
 
----
 
----
−
some advantages Ravencoin will have to token issuers over Eth:
 
  
−
- more secure chain
+
Tron:
 +
Bruce and I agree that it doesn’t need shilling.  Eventually, we’ll need to let more people know it exists and that it is a platform they can build on, but that isn’t even true until the end of October when assets activate on mainnet.
  
−
- more censorship resistant
+
----
  
−
- more decentralized
+
Tron:
 +
If there’s a Raven Classic, it probably wont have asset support.
  
−
- simpler / more elegant
+
----
  
−
- native in the protocol
+
Tron:
 +
Yes, we would like RVN to continue to be viable cash.  We hope it gets used for rewards (paying all holders of your token in RVN), and for on-chain atomic swaps (paying for assets with RVN where the trade happens all at once).
  
−
- will allow dividends
+
----
  
−
- will allow messaging
+
Tron:
 +
I’m not 100% sure.  It seems like we’re in a bear market — similar to 2014-2015.  Some of it is being sold to buy into RVN, EOS, and ADA, or into ICOs which are still going strong outside the US.
  
−
It's the next gen
 
 
----
 
----
−
Ravencoin plans to integrate RSK --
+
Tron:
 +
I agree - kinda dumb.  It is a completely arbitrary line.  Enforce rules against outright fraud, but let everyone invest their money any way they choose.
  
−
Advantage is shorter block time and that it's native to the protocol -- but for smart contracts RSK will eneable solidity to work on the Ravencoin blockchain
 
 
----
 
----
−
ASIC resistance and a wider and more fair distribution is another advantage of Ravencoin.
 
  
−
By this time period in Bitcoin's history the coin had less than a dozen miners. We have thousands
+
Tron:
−
This is one of the most widely distributed coins if not THE most
+
I think there will be sites listing assets for sale.  We’ve put  “forsale” and “forsale_price” keys in the metadata spec for this reason.  Brokers could scan the chain and the meta data to build a website for exchanging asset names.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
the protocol won't be ready to issue tokens on for 7-8 months or so.  But the network is already very strong and will have a lot of appeal
 
−
Securities tokens are one of the key use cases and reasons Ravencoin was created
 
  
−
Securities tokens are my main focus
+
Tron:
 +
https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/master/assets/asset_metadata_spec.md
  
−
I think everything will be tokenized
 
 
----
 
----
−
I was a stockbroker for almost 20 years so have been interested in securities tokens since I came into Bitcoin 6 years ago
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
I will share the scripts to allow anyone to register any names they want.  I’m excited to see what gets registered.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Especially interesting is small companies who can't now go public on old markets but will be able to using Ravencoin
+
Tron:
 +
Sending assets will require a small RVN fee.  I’d love to get rid of the fee, but it opens up too many attacks that don’t cost anything.
  
−
And also conventional asset management
 
 
----
 
----
−
Many exciting areas
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
It’s been wonderful chatting with all of you.  Thanks for your support of RVN.  I’m working on some python scripts that’ll let you create batches of assets (with associated meta data) from a Google spreadsheet or csv.  I’ll make them available next week for everyone to play with.  It’ll make it easier for anyone wanting to register multiple assets.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
== 03 Aug 2018 - Telegram ==
 +
 
 +
''Some interesting posts from tron on telegram''
 +
 
 +
Tron:
 +
http://raven-blockchain.info/ext/getmoneysupply is stalled on an old block.  Needs to be switched to: https://ravencoin.network/api/supply
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
SEC regs are misunderstood by almost everyone in the space
+
'' referring to testnet launch''
 +
Tron:
 +
Thanks.  We had a few glitches that we're fixing, but overall it seems to be performing as expected.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Things like lawyers will be the market not part of the protocol
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
Brace yourself. The limits of free speech are being tested.  FREEDOM!!!
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Ravencoin opens up not just new doors to securities but entirely new types of aligning interests.  For example co-ops
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
In the qt, go to Help->Debug, then the console tab, and type listassets
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Ravencoin will enable users to issue STOs
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
I'd be interested in knowing which ones it doesn't fulfill.  It is portable, fungible, divisible, durable, transferable, and limited.  USD is 5 of those 6.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Not a smart contract but native to the protocol
 
−
----
 
−
Sure real estate or any asset anyone wants
 
−
To issue
 
  
−
Game currency.  Securities.
+
Tron:
 +
Michael Any wallet, explorer, exhange, etc. can use the .png.  It likely will not be built into the reference client because we don't want to be downloading and showing the types of images that could be added.  If you've looked at the list of assets created on testnet, you'll understand our concern.
  
−
Also unique assets
 
 
----
 
----
−
yes with any offering issuers will still need a legal team and offering management (not from the protocol but the market)
+
'' referring to facilitating adoption''
 +
Tron:
 +
Adoption - ease of use, cross platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, iOs, Android) , and secure.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
not a SDK but native abilities within the protocol itself
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
We hope assets will be tradable on decentralized exchanges.  I think this will happen organically as soon as some real projects are using the tokens.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
So user will be able to issue:
 
−
100,000 token shares of Janes Startup
 
  
−
17 Platinum Swords of Power
+
Tron:
 +
Medici has investments in about 14 different companies.  I expect some of them will be able to use RVN, but RVN is not being developed in support of any particular project.  It has larger ambitions to be a platform for asset issuance with multi-OS support and much easier to use than ERC20.
  
−
1 Mona Lisa Token
+
----
 +
Tron:
 +
Verhoven RVN should be a currency.  We want it to have a value because phase 3 will allow paying token holders in RVN.  Imagine a project that's profitable where the early supporters are rewarded (with RVN) based on the percentage of tokens they hold.
  
−
Etc
 
 
----
 
----
−
that's exactly something my company is working on
+
 
−
Chainstone Labs plans to be one of the first users of Ravencoin
+
Tron:
 +
I'm not allowed to talk about tZero stuff.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
You won't get dividends for holding rvn
+
 
−
It will be paid by token issuers to token holders
+
Tron:
 +
I had experience with Counterparty, Mastercoin, colored coins, and open assets which had similar capabilities on top of Bitcoin.  It was secure, but clunky because some bitcoin had to be sent with every asset, and the fees became prohibitively high last year.  We've been able to fix these issues because we can make adjustments that the core Bitcoin developers can't make.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Rvn willl be burned for users to issue or name tokens
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
The ideas behind the project and using the blockchain for tokenizing assets came from Bruce Fenton, as well as the project name and logo.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
The assets will be on the rvn chain
+
Tron:
 +
I'm in talks with the leadership and developers on that project.  We've agreed that Ravencoin is great once they're tokenizing the land.  First stages are about recording ownership and Ravencoin doesn't fit that use case as well.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
The assets will be using Ravencoin chain as rails
+
 
−
<name removed> I founded Atlantic Financial, a Registered Investment advisor and also own chainstone labs
+
Tron:
−
And Satoshi Roundtable
+
I've talked to lots of companies about their projects on RVN.  Two game companies, one tokenized real-estate company, and a VC company that wants to do tokenized Reg A+ offerings.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Right holders have to trust each issuer if they claim there is an asset backing it
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
I created a crypto accounting system called CoinCPA -- look for the podcasts from 2014.  I was an early employee of Tzero.  I'm a Tzero advisor.  I worked for crypto company out of Hong Kong.  I've helped Spera, and Bitsy which are portfolio companies of Medici Ventures.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
No no
 
−
Only for physical assets
 
  
−
Real world
+
Tron:
 +
I do have some coins.  If anything bad happens to the Ravencoin chain, it will affect me personally.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Virtual items like digital currency, utility and game currency or items would stay digital
+
 
 +
Tron:
 +
It's exciting.  I'm a huge fan of everything that's happening in the crypto space.  I think the Ravencoin community is the best!  I feel honored and blessed to be a part of the project.  I really want it to succeed.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Providers of legal and KYC services willl be able to easily integrate with rvn
+
 
 +
'' in reference to some significant purchases seen recently on cb ''
 +
Tron:
 +
I can say for certain it isn't me.  It really don't think it's Patrick.  I don't think it's Bruce, but I don't know that.
 +
 
 +
==31 July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
Reminder:  careful using testnet and wallets etc - someone WILL lose money because they get confused, send real coins to the wrong place only use if you know what you are doing :smiley:
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Ravencoin doesn't compete with Polymath - it's a separate type of thing
+
I propose that we as a community voluntarily white hat any major names like Google -/ hopefully if the real Google wants to use it the community member will give it to them at cost — but that’s optional of course
 
----
 
----
−
Poly has said they are chain agnostic so can use rvn
+
There isn’t any way to pre-reserve or verify names
 
----
 
----
−
Unlike Eth, Ravencoin was specifically built for the purpose of issuing tokens
+
But we can cooperate to register good ones
 
----
 
----
−
Using RSK solidly Ravencoin will be able to do everything Eth can do
+
 
 +
No first dibs :smiley:
 
----
 
----
−
the published policy is to change the algo to break asics if they are created
+
White hats racing against squatters
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
no asics DECREASE security because they increase centralization
+
Testnet will give people a chance to see what has been built and will also allow more contributors to easily contribute and do security testing because the code is published and everyone can be on the same page
 +
 
 +
Testnet also allows 2nd and third layer developers to see how the protocol works and build and test apps
 +
 
 +
Since the network was built first with ravencoin we already have a massive head start when mainnet is launched (versus if the network genesis and the asset layer were launched together)
 +
 
 +
This means that since racencoin already has tons of users, community members and interested parties the usability of the asset layer capabilities increases
 +
 
 +
There are a lot of us in the community who can test and build on this protocol
 +
 
 +
So - when mainnet launches :rocket: there will be a lot of people ready to jumpstart that network and build on it
 +
 
 +
I predict a lot of asset names reserved right away (it will be like domain registration races / land grab)
 +
 
 +
When mainnet is launched people will be able to immediately create real assets which will be verified by the ravencoin blockchain
 +
 
 +
 
 +
== 29 July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
We had mini raven sculptures hidden all around the Satoshi Roundtable
 +
 
 +
== 14 July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
Ravencoin as a real open source & fair launched project will never have the captive marketing budget of an ICO — but those projects will never have the tech depth or scalability that the Ravencoin protocol has.
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
Asics make mining less distributed
+
Icos as we know them will not be as big as securities tokens
 +
 
 +
== 12 July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
The dlr is a different thing - it’s a specific tool to help crypto interface with existing wall st touting systems
 +
 
 +
Aside from this Tzero is also an exchange which will trade security tokens
 +
 
 +
==11 July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
Just one solid exchange would be very relevant
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
actually they make a 51% attack easier because asics tend to concentrate mining in the hands of a small number of giant miners with data centers
 
  
−
Bitcoin can be 51% attacked by compromising 4 people or so.  Ravencoin you'd need to compromise an army of Ravens with their gpus
+
Rvn took a path more like BTC or ltc
  
−
<name removed> users acquire rvn and use that to create assets or pay dividend
 
 
----
 
----
−
once someone issues a token they can do what they want with it:  give it away, sell it, run an ICO or STO, put it in a game or whatever they choose
+
 
 +
I think an exchange will happen
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
To be clear: the Ravencoin protocol will support RSK / solidity but ALSO have a native capability built in which makes it easier for many use cases
 
  
−
And has more capabilities like messaging and dividends
+
There actually is a lot of raven marketing - it’s all pretty much done by volunteer community members bits be trippin etc
 +
 
 
----
 
----
−
<name removed> once someone issues a token they can do what they want with it:  give it away, sell it, run an ICO or STO, put it in a game or whatever they choose
 
−
----
 
−
To be clear: the Ravencoin protocol will support RSK / solidity but ALSO have a native capability built in which makes it easier for many use cases
 
  
−
And has more capabilities like messaging and dividends
+
I think Tzero hasn’t announced exactly how they will make listing decisions — there will be lots of factors
 +
 
 +
Rvn could be appealing to any exchange because it has high interest and volume and is not a security and also its code base is based on Bitcoin so well understood
 +
 
 +
Rvn is an especially natural fit for exchanges focusing on securities tokens
 +
 
 +
== 11 July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
From @Chatturga
 +
 
 +
Hello, everyone.  I bring exciting news about the asset layer! Assuming that everything goes smoothly, the binaries to test the asset layer on testnet will be available for download on July 30th.  Additionally, the target date for mainnet release has been tentatively set for October 31st.  These dates give the community time to find any issues and for PR's to be processed - with October 31st also being the 1 year anniversary of the first Medium article about Ravencoin.
 +
 
 +
== 3 July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
Have I mentioned that this is Game of Thrones?
 +
 
 +
GAME OF THRONES!
 +
 
 +
This space is very treacherous and risky - there is a ton of uncertainty.
 +
 
 +
A coin claiming they will “beat Bitcoin” is not credible — neither is it credible to say Bitcoin has a 100% chance of being both global money and the rails for all tokens with zero exceptions.
 +
 
 +
There are a few possible outcomes:
 +
 
 +
1) Bitcoin becomes the only chain, all projects become sidechains on Bitcoin - RVN and ALL other coins/ projects die completely
 +
(possible but unlikely / not certain enough to bet on 100%)
 +
 
 +
2) Bitcoin dies, other coin or coins / projects serve that need (unlikely)
 +
 
 +
3) Bitcoin becomes important money and important chain for tokens but other projects survive and serve large or niche markets
 +
3a Raven is one of these survivors
 +
3b it isn’t
 +
(This is the most likely scenario imho of the 3 — even if I felt an 80% chance of option 1 then it would still be prudent to support other coins in case BTC fails or in case any can develop a niche which serves one area better than BTC)
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
So if option 3 occurred and raven survived then it could be used in even a “small” niche of the possibly deca trillion dollar token market and end up being very important.
 +
 
 +
Cross chain atomic swaps and lots of other things will make cooperation between projects make sense — LTC is a good example - the project has never tried to be at odds with Bitcoin.
 +
 
 +
Bitcoin was always going to do tokens — that a HQ co like Blockstream is working on this is exciting and validated the entire idea.
 +
Just a month ago all the best “experts” were saying that tokens couldn’t be put on Bitcoin or a fork of Bitcoin — this is specifically why I always used Bitcoin not raven in the periscope video examples on security tokens.
 +
 
 +
When we did these demos everyone laughed — well now the smartest devs in the space are doing what we’ve been working on for a while as well (Blockstream has worked on this a long time too)
 +
 
 +
It will be great if both Bitcoin and Raven serve markets in tokens successfully - there are certainly plenty of ways that can work — I also think other projects like ada and eos will have a good chance of surviving and several platforms  will thrive for different reasons.
 +
 
 +
Anyway — being that this is Game of Thrones and in the grand timeline of global money and blockchains - we are early in season 1 ... it’s a good time to be supportive of all projects and focus on building great tech rather than “beating” someone.
 +
Also — most importantly — Blockstream is NOT a competitor of Raven - Blockstream is a company with investors and some top devs and products etc. - Ravencoin is an idea and some code / software which generates a scare digital asset.
 +
 
 +
So back to the Blockstream announcement
 +
 
 +
...If this is Game of Thrones here we are over at Raven Tower okay — and Adam Back is like the Maester from Fort Block — he just moved in and says he wants to fight white walkers with the weapon he’s been working on —
 +
 
 +
Okay I could go on :joy:...
 +
 
 +
But seriously, Blockstream is not an enemy to this project - that’s absurd - they are awesome people and high quality cypherpunks and some of the smartest people in the industry.
 +
 
 +
The “competitor” isn’t Blockstream it’s Bitcoin (for tokens!) — obviously Bitcoin is the strongest chain and it’s very unlikely raven would replace it — that was never the goal, point or idea (at least from my personal POV or imho)-  the better competitor is ETH who actually has serious weaknesses.
 +
 
 +
Goal as I’ve always personally seen it is to work on this specific use case on a PROTOCOL level to see if it develops advantages overall — it has had some since day one —
 +
 
 +
Just build good stuff and keep focusing
 +
 
 +
If you want to attack someone ETH is a better target but even those folks are pretty cool — better to hope the rising tide lifts all boats!!
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
Yeah no one should care so much what I say — centralized authorities are bad
 +
 
 +
I love this coin and project and community — this is why I’ve given what I think is a fair share of free work to the project — but my activity shouldn’t be so relevant (and neither should anyone else’s)
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
I don’t see it as competition and even if so it would be silly to claim this chain is stronger than Bitcoin - imho far smarter way to look at things is the way LTC and to a lesser extent cardano does: we are all in the same ecosystem
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
I’ve supported raven as best I can and will continue to — I’ve done about 15 speeches and a hundred tweets and 12 interviews and I’ve received death threats and nearly daily criticisms and accusations of being a scammer / pumper because of being such a vocal supporter — I’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of my own money on support of raven — I’ve taken time from my family to fly to meet devs and I’ve spent hundreds of hours on everything from writing and research to design to chatting in forums or answering questions.
 +
 
 +
I receive zero pay and zero special coins or bonus for any work or commentary I do on Raven —
 +
Every hour I spend on Raven is uncompensated and I have to skip other paying work to do -
 +
 
 +
If people think it’s not enough or can do better then by all means hopefully they can step up and be spokespeople also — I offered to help others do so a while ago & will make more ppt etc when I can
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
Asset layer test net should be out in July
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
Blockstream moving into this is great news for the overall ecosystem
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
It’s a $40 trillion market
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
Personally I see it as very different
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
Raven is open source
 +
If you want to compete with a company you can
 +
Or use the code and software how you choose
 +
 
 +
== 2nd July 2018 - Discord 2 ==
 +
 
 +
I have over 150,000 social media followers and announced Raven to over 2000 conference attendees at crypto conferences including Miami BTC and Texas Bitcoin Conference
 +
It was posted by many others aside from me and retweeted and reposted by many others
 +
 
 +
We had 4500 miners within a week and the network grew so fast that solo mining and cpu rigs were obsolete within two weeks
 +
 
 +
To claim that no one was on the network and that some secret miner dominated the mining is preposterous and easily provably false
 +
 
 +
In the very earliest days the network was widely distributed — the three largest miners (Overstock / Medici and three parties I don’t know who they are) each never reached more than 10-15% of hash power —- and that was only for a short few weeks or so in the earlier days
 +
 
 +
Since then the math can easily show that for anyone to have significant network power they would have to spend a significant amount on GPU rigs — the math & metrics behind this are trivial for anyone with a basic understanding of mining and crypto
 +
 
 +
It is simply impossible to have had a special advantage on the launch - all anyone could have possibly done is what early miners did:: take a big risk on early equipment-/
 +
 
 +
No one had any advantage whatsoever and there was absolutely no premine or set aside or insta mine at all
 +
 
 +
This is what is great about this tech - a blockchain is provable
 +
I guess at the ravencoin annual meeting we can ask early miners to raise hands
 +
 
 +
-----
 +
 
 +
Blockstream is a company — raven is a protocol
 +
 
 +
We are not competing with Blockstream
  
 
== Older Posts ==
 
== Older Posts ==
 +
 +
[[Fenton Files: April 2018 - June 2018]]
 +
 
[[Fenton Files: start - March 2018]]
 
[[Fenton Files: start - March 2018]]

Latest revision as of 06:51, 11 November 2018


This page aims to capture some of the thoughts from Bruce Fenton and some of the core devs about RavenCoin, it's purpose and future. It's not comprehensive, just some of the interesting comments spotted on the community chats.

Discord 1 refers to the original discord which has since been deleted by it's owner. Discord 2 refers to the 2nd discord that was set up by the community. Links on community page.

11 Nov 2018 - Discord 2

Economics of token creation - raven ends up being exactly the same issuance schedule as Bitcoin but with this perpetual drain on total supply in the form of whatever is burned.

That-/ and the fact that it’s real 100% pow coins getting burned - that means RVN assets have sort of a neat double POW / a real asset (energy) has been burned to allow assets to exist

This gives them value. Not much, it’s tiny. But it does exist and that’s very different than other projects and very fascinating.


09 Nov 2018 - Discord 2

Talking your own book is exactly ethical and legal— especially if disclosed. It’s one of the purest form of ethical interaction in commerce. Some had to not only risk public reputation to support this coin but also give miners over $ of my capital to get the coins we own. So a miner could have dumped on us and I’d be the one conned. Someone being well known or ostk backing some dev is also not relevant. Oprah or Andreas could mention this coin for five seconds and instantly have more influence than paper authors. If Greg Maxwell came and said something was a security risk, people would listen etc etc. that’s how a real open source project works. In a fair launch like this it’s almost impossible to have one party have the upper hand. That’s not marketing talk or something to pump ravens structure — that’s just the truth. Projects with a fair & open launch are literally a gift to the users — anything created from those projects is created by fair work to the people. It’s absolutely incomparable to something that raised money.

Nothing wrong with raising money by the way but it’s utterly and completely different from giving away something for free. It’s decentralized versus centralized. Permissioned versus free.

It’s the very core of our industry. A foundational core of what open source / decentralized/ cypherpunk networks can be.

Now ravencoin may be stupid, a bad idea, it may fail, it may break, it may have unforeseen problems or it might just be outpaced by any of a dozen projects trying to do the same. All those are potentially valid debates. —- but there’s just no reasonable way to say this project wasn’t fair. It’s provable on the blockchain that this was the most widely participated in and fastest growing network in history.

One may think raven is a weak project but it’s fairness is completely undeniable— if someone doesn’t believe that then they either don’t understand or believe in crypto or they don’t fully understand how this project works.

By the way:: we need to spread that far and wide. People should understand that this is their project — anyone can build on it

All this work we’ve done:: it’s free! All the code, the network — all that’s been invested — it all belongs to all members of the community. Anyone can use it and any one can benefit from this network.

Now for 500 RVN you can create a permanent asset backed by this absolutely massive amount of hashpower. That asset can do all kinds of cool stuff.

This is amazing. People don’t even see it yet.

The structure is a key part. No leaders, no rulers, no centralized parties. That’s best practices. It’s harder.


17 Oct 2018 - Discord 2

New folks be sure to

1) download the latest wallet - recognize that this is YOUR project - it’s open source and NOT controlled by any specific people - you can build on this and use it without permission!

2) start mining — with a gpu you can get some coins to use and reserve names with but even if not then it still helps the network

3) running a full mining node helps strengthen the coin and helps everyone

4) download testnet NOW and mess with creating assets (!) this way you are ready for:

5) be ready to create real assets after mainnet launches on Oct 31 - you only get one shot at each asset name

6) register names you can use (if you register a brand name please consider giving it to the brand owner if they ask, this helps the network)

7) imho best early tokens will be game and experiments - fun things — this is still early stage and experimental — will be ready for things like securities once lots of testing in the live world — don’t take unwise financial risks - this is an experiment!- have fun and build something cool

05 Oct 2018 - Discord 2

The entire structure of ravencoin is VERY different from almost every other project — so it takes a lot of learning Thanks to all who participate

the thing is that Ravencoin is a protocol not a company — this is why no partnerships -// not because they aren’t valuable but because they are not necessary Ravencoin doesn’t have partnerships with companies because 1) there’s no one to make such a partnership 2) the companies and devs wanting to build on this don’t need anyone’s permission - they can just build

This is a good model — imho it’s the best model

Finding the right balance of how much to talk about this project is hard

Software is allowed to be centralized.

When people say this isn’t it’s not because they are lying to pretend something — it’s because it’s accurate.

The main misunderstanding seems to be that ravencoin is controlled or directed by Medici or tZero

It’s just not the case

This isn’t some claim that someone is trying to make to comply with some rule — its the actual truth. Also there is no law that this would be relevant for — the idea that a company working on an open source project “makes it a security” is silly and it’s super insulting

Whether raven is centrally controlled or has corporate involvement / oversight / investment etc do not make it a security anyway — that entire line of thinking is based on faulty logic and not understanding now Ravencoin works or was issued

Ravencoin was released for free exactly like Litecoin — because it was never sold it was not an offering

Even if it had one person as a ceo and even if that one person worked for Medici it would not matter —- still not a security

my time doesn’t belong to you. Usually when people write articles and mention someone they get quotes from them and check for accuracy first —- I do what I can to give accurate info.

I waste hours on this and the only result is time wasted

It doesn’t matter if something it centralized

That doesn’t make it a security

A coin being centralized or controlled by a company matters when the company or coin raises money - a project like Raven is completely different

there’s nothing whatsoever “hinging” on that — that’s crazy talk.

No reasonable or knowledgeable person I’ve heard of considers RVN a security. If they do then :shrug:‍♂️ Litecoin and Bitcoin would be as well. It’s insane

... no — not at all.

Ridiculous

This all stems from people who don’t understand securities

There’s tons of info out there Not sure why people assume a conspiracy There’s no one “at the top” There’s no one “worried”

It’s REALLLY key to understand that this is an open source, decentralized project —- there is no person or people or corporation running it

There is no conspiracy etc People just work in their own interests

>>>>Ravencoin is not an entity at all <<<<

What matters is whether ravencoin can and does work

Crap projects have an interest in promoting “partnerships” and stuff — actual protocols don’t

(In reference (I think) to Medici / Overstock / RVN) I’ve said 100 times that they aren’t related — even made videos about it

Rvn is better than ever - amazing - one of the strongest projects ever

Because raven isn’t like that and isn’t a corporate project with “deals” and “agreements” / joint ventures and that kind of ico crap

Medici donates dev time Which is great


But people assume much more of a corporate tie


Which is a shame

Not a gift from MV


MV gifts some dev

Big difference

There’s an impression that tZero and raven fit together in some special way or work together or that one platform is being designed for the other

(In reference to an article speculating on the connection between various OSTK / MV projects and RVN) thanks! I’m not a fan of the screen shot from discord — I’ve tried to make clear many times that the projects really are not related — that screen shot taken on its own and out of the context of its convo seems like I’m winking and being coy or something imho Basically it was in reply to people who think the opposite: which is that tZero has nothing to do with rvn and will never list it because they are competitors or something Neither is true

It’s really not a corporate coin -/ existed before anyone at tZero heard of it and before I joined the board

There’s no team of folks at tZero working on raven and it defiantly wasn’t designed by tZero or created for some tZero purpose

Yes but ostk owns a mess of stuff and there’s no major direction from ostk to any portfolio cos to support ravencoin

TZero and ravencoin are much less related than people assume




23 Sept 2018 - Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference

Title: Global Ledgers: Scaling & Capacity for Legacy Securities Systems in the Age of Atomic Swaps

Conference: Baltic Honeybadger 2018 Bitcoin conference, Riga, Sep 22-23

Bruce talks about the history of securities, it's current problems, and block chain.

Talk at: https://youtu.be/D2WXxgZ8h-0?t=1h48m23s

Slides at: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1043833386257854464.html

Bruce Fenton (Discord):

I didn’t mention Raven because as soon as you mention a specific product at certain events people stop listening and are closed minded

Also so many people don’t even understand tokenized securities that it’s best to explain that first

Once they understand this concept then Rvn makes more sense

12 Sept 2018 - Telegram

Bruce Fenton: Because this is protocol development not something like an ICO scam

Ravencoin is a protocol — that’s it — it’s software

There is NO ONE to “make announcements” or “sign partnerships”

It’s open source - for all community members to contribute how they wish — this is a VERY VERY different model than centralized projects who did ICOs etc

If you are expecting centralized sales, marketing, announcements — that will never happen with this project and people should know that

What the project does do is focus on building secure and useful software— anyone can contribute and decide if they want to run that software

25 Aug 2018 - Discord 2

consensus works in open source by open discussion over what code to run

Everyone should contribute to the discussion

There is no division between devs and non devs - there is no special authority who bestows the title “developer” - it’s just based on what code people run and who decides to run what they choose

So we don’t say “just do what the devs say” because there are no specific “devs” with any official role - just people who have done a lot of work and implemented the vision in the paper

Anyone can be a dev

Anyone on this page can write code

And call themselves a dev

No one has authority over any other

We the users and holders have the authority by deciding what code to run

So if you say “trust the devs” the first question one needs to ask is “who? / which devs”

The way to flush that out is by discussion

Open and free discussion

There’s also no special authority for any other person - no ceo or founder or master node or author or dev has special power or authority

But main point is that this is open source — there is no authority

We don’t want to ever discourage discussion — especially over security related issues

All this project is is a group of people choosing to run code based on what they think Ravencoin means and what code is effective for that definition — every person has the right to discuss what they think that vision is or means

The term hoi polloi is funny but it’s the antithesis of what open source is about — there is no “commoners” or higher class of people

There’s no special category called developers

It’s not ideal to say that people should defer to devs — that’s got a lot of issues I can explain —

what if a new dev joins tomorrow and creates the code to change the supply to 5 trillion with an insta mine of 1 trillion to himself and burning all addresses bringing in R5?

Would you say “stay in your lane, don’t discuss forks”? Of course not - it’s not what the coin is

It’s super relevant and key to discuss things like hard forks — any hard fork changes the consensus mechanism and the rules which everyone on the network previously agreed to

So it’s really a big responsibility for every user to know and care what all code changes are

There’s also a HUGE difference between non technical people discussing technical matters and overall DESIGN matters

You won’t see me talking specific code almost ever — it’s not my area of expertise

But overall economics, functionality and design is an area of expertise I have for this coin — Andy one can develop expertise and have opinions on the direction — anyone can choose to listen or not - and run what they want based on a combo of vision and capabilities and functions with the specific code

Well this is why consensus is so important

Just something to plan for — for the future


We can all continually improve the quality of review of code changes

Bitcoin

Bitcoin system has worked best and that’s what Ravencoin is developed after

Bitcoin has made many leaps forward on this - there are lots of contributors and discussions

@name — well one thing is that there isn’t and shouldn’t be much of a line between “devs” and “the community” —- devs ARE the community and the community is devs in this project — there is no separate wall


You don’t need to just “speak with a Bitcoin dev” you can BE a Bitcoin dev by simply submitting code

Secret sauce of Bitcoin is no leaders

No authority

Consensus

Same with Ravencoin-

The system is working well as it is — I don’t see any problems at all — just giving thoughts on best practices and ideas for the future — there are several things we learned from this hard fork which can be improved on next time - mainly around communicating

There’s some bad habits from ICOS where people come in to protocol projects looking for leaders or thinking a central authority makes all decisions

It’s wise to plan for contentious forks

It’s wise to plan for contentious forks

And have healthy debate over all changes

Forks also present a risk — every code change presents a possibility of unforeseen consequences

14 Aug 2018 - Telegram

Chatturga: The v2.0.3 binaries are available to download on the ravencoin github. Assuming that everything continues to run smoothly, and no significant bugs need to be addressed, this is the version that will activate DGW and BIP9/RIP2 consensus voting for the asset layer. The devs recommend updating to this version soon (before block 338778), with a particular emphasis toward pool owners and exchanges. I'll reach out to those people at the end of the day since the devs want to do a bit more testing.

https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/releases/tag/v2.0.3

05 Aug 2018 - Telegram

Tron

Tron: Ravencoin is a protocol platform for assets and will work with anybody's infrastructure. Additional requirements can always be added by exchanges, or issuers, but are not native to the asset protocol.

Tron: You’re absolutely right. We are watching the issue closely. To put it in perspective though, our block times have been roughly 1.5x the speed of BTC during the worst of it. We have already switched to DGW on testnet and Ravencoin is slated to move to DGW on mainnet at the end of October. Our primary concern is not the code, that’s already done. Our primary concern is not allowing the chain to split. A chain split would cause far more damage and confusion than 5 minute blocks. The diff swings are a result of being profitable, then not, then profitable again, in an undamped oscillation. DGW will fix it, but it requires a hard fork where everyone must upgrade the software. This carries some risk.

Tron: x16r is the hashing algorithm, and is different than the difficulty adjustment algorithm. It will still be x16r. The difficulty adjustment tries to make it so it is 1 minute blocks no matter how many cpus/gpus are mining. Currently it adjusts by looking back 2016 blocks and making a percentage adjustment to bring it inline. There is a 4x limit, which we are close to hitting. It isn’t good but it shouldn’t get much worse.

Tron: RVN will still be RVN. The problem is that anyone that doesn’t upgrade when the algo switches over, will be on a different chain. Imagine the problems if CryptoBridge doesn’t upgrade, or Cryptopia, etc. and they have a different view. A hard fork is just a software upgrade, but it is really important that certain nodes upgrade. We have a managed upgrade already scheduled for the end of Oct that lets everyone decide on their own whether to upgrade and when enough mining nodes have upgraded, it seamlessly switches over at a set percentage.

Tron: No, shorter block times aren’t the problem. Rentable hashpower, and multipools which auto-redirect hashpower to the most profitable coin makes it more difficult to calibrate. That’s what changed.

Tron: The longest chain is the winner. We just need to make sure it is crystal clear which one that is. If we have 1/2 mining power on one chain and 1/2 on another, it gets murky. If that ever happens, just don’t transfer RVN during that time and you’ll be fine. And, if you’re mining, make sure you’re on the longest chain.

Tron: DGW will go a long way towards that. We actually want increased hashing, we just don’t want it coming and going in multi-day intervals.

Tron: I don’t think miners using a pool will need to change anything. Just make sure the pool you’re using has upgraded whenever the software is upgraded. Make sure you’re using the latest version to view/store/transfer your RVN.

Tron: My understanding is that there was a Pull Request for RVN on Ledger. I don’t know if/when that will make it into production.

Tron: Yes, unix (linux), Mac, and Windows. We need to make sure the client cross-compiles for all of them.

Tron: Yeah, there were some awful asset names. I imagine that some of the web explorers and asset marketplaces will want to run names through a filter.

Tron: There’s going to be lots of interesting opportunities. I think someone will build a marketplace for asset names.

Tron: There’s really only one chain. The problem is that when you change the diff algo, then the version of the software using the old algo sees only old algo blocks as valid, and software using the algo only sees new algo blocks as valid. The “real” one SHOULD be the new algo chain, but there’s no BOSS that says you can’t run older software. So it is really up the users to upgrade and all agree to use the newer software. I can’t compel anyone to upgrade, but it would make economic sense for everyone to use the new software. We can write software that doesn’t change the algorithm until it sees that most miners have upgraded because we can put a version number in the blocks and count the mined blocks. That’s what BIP9 does — Google it if you’re interested in how it works.

We’re hiring like crazy. Most of our hires are for tZero, Medici, and Bitsy. If you’re a great developer, you should apply. Bruce is in NH and he visits Utah and we visit him in NH.

Tron: Yes. I don’t know how trademark rules would apply. I fought two trademark battles where I felt I was in the right. I won one, and folded the other against a giant “perfect” word processing company.

Tron: There is support for that. I’m not in favor of that, in general, but it did make sense for our asset hard fork.

Tron: I hope not, because I think it would devalue RVN, but it is certainly a possibility. Interestingly enough, anyone who had RVN before that fork would have RVN and RVC, but I still think it would would be a net negative overall.

Tron: Sometimes it is cheaper to mine, and sometimes it is cheaper to buy. Right now it is cheaper to buy — until the diff adjusts. I wrote a paper on how the two are interlinked. https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoin-value-and-mining-difficulty

Tron: Bruce and I agree that it doesn’t need shilling. Eventually, we’ll need to let more people know it exists and that it is a platform they can build on, but that isn’t even true until the end of October when assets activate on mainnet.

Tron: If there’s a Raven Classic, it probably wont have asset support.

Tron: Yes, we would like RVN to continue to be viable cash. We hope it gets used for rewards (paying all holders of your token in RVN), and for on-chain atomic swaps (paying for assets with RVN where the trade happens all at once).

Tron: I’m not 100% sure. It seems like we’re in a bear market — similar to 2014-2015. Some of it is being sold to buy into RVN, EOS, and ADA, or into ICOs which are still going strong outside the US.

Tron: I agree - kinda dumb. It is a completely arbitrary line. Enforce rules against outright fraud, but let everyone invest their money any way they choose.

Tron: I think there will be sites listing assets for sale. We’ve put “forsale” and “forsale_price” keys in the metadata spec for this reason. Brokers could scan the chain and the meta data to build a website for exchanging asset names.

Tron: https://github.com/RavenProject/Ravencoin/blob/master/assets/asset_metadata_spec.md

Tron: I will share the scripts to allow anyone to register any names they want. I’m excited to see what gets registered.

Tron: Sending assets will require a small RVN fee. I’d love to get rid of the fee, but it opens up too many attacks that don’t cost anything.

Tron: It’s been wonderful chatting with all of you. Thanks for your support of RVN. I’m working on some python scripts that’ll let you create batches of assets (with associated meta data) from a Google spreadsheet or csv. I’ll make them available next week for everyone to play with. It’ll make it easier for anyone wanting to register multiple assets.


03 Aug 2018 - Telegram

Some interesting posts from tron on telegram

Tron: http://raven-blockchain.info/ext/getmoneysupply is stalled on an old block. Needs to be switched to: https://ravencoin.network/api/supply

referring to testnet launch Tron: Thanks. We had a few glitches that we're fixing, but overall it seems to be performing as expected.

Tron: Brace yourself. The limits of free speech are being tested. FREEDOM!!!

Tron: In the qt, go to Help->Debug, then the console tab, and type listassets

Tron: I'd be interested in knowing which ones it doesn't fulfill. It is portable, fungible, divisible, durable, transferable, and limited. USD is 5 of those 6.

Tron: Michael Any wallet, explorer, exhange, etc. can use the .png. It likely will not be built into the reference client because we don't want to be downloading and showing the types of images that could be added. If you've looked at the list of assets created on testnet, you'll understand our concern.

referring to facilitating adoption Tron: Adoption - ease of use, cross platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, iOs, Android) , and secure.

Tron: We hope assets will be tradable on decentralized exchanges. I think this will happen organically as soon as some real projects are using the tokens.

Tron: Medici has investments in about 14 different companies. I expect some of them will be able to use RVN, but RVN is not being developed in support of any particular project. It has larger ambitions to be a platform for asset issuance with multi-OS support and much easier to use than ERC20.

Tron: Verhoven RVN should be a currency. We want it to have a value because phase 3 will allow paying token holders in RVN. Imagine a project that's profitable where the early supporters are rewarded (with RVN) based on the percentage of tokens they hold.

Tron: I'm not allowed to talk about tZero stuff.

Tron: I had experience with Counterparty, Mastercoin, colored coins, and open assets which had similar capabilities on top of Bitcoin. It was secure, but clunky because some bitcoin had to be sent with every asset, and the fees became prohibitively high last year. We've been able to fix these issues because we can make adjustments that the core Bitcoin developers can't make.

Tron: The ideas behind the project and using the blockchain for tokenizing assets came from Bruce Fenton, as well as the project name and logo.

Tron: I'm in talks with the leadership and developers on that project. We've agreed that Ravencoin is great once they're tokenizing the land. First stages are about recording ownership and Ravencoin doesn't fit that use case as well.

Tron: I've talked to lots of companies about their projects on RVN. Two game companies, one tokenized real-estate company, and a VC company that wants to do tokenized Reg A+ offerings.

Tron: I created a crypto accounting system called CoinCPA -- look for the podcasts from 2014. I was an early employee of Tzero. I'm a Tzero advisor. I worked for crypto company out of Hong Kong. I've helped Spera, and Bitsy which are portfolio companies of Medici Ventures.

Tron: I do have some coins. If anything bad happens to the Ravencoin chain, it will affect me personally.

Tron: It's exciting. I'm a huge fan of everything that's happening in the crypto space. I think the Ravencoin community is the best! I feel honored and blessed to be a part of the project. I really want it to succeed.

in reference to some significant purchases seen recently on cb Tron: I can say for certain it isn't me. It really don't think it's Patrick. I don't think it's Bruce, but I don't know that.

31 July 2018 - Discord 2

Reminder: careful using testnet and wallets etc - someone WILL lose money because they get confused, send real coins to the wrong place only use if you know what you are doing :smiley:

I propose that we as a community voluntarily white hat any major names like Google -/ hopefully if the real Google wants to use it the community member will give it to them at cost — but that’s optional of course

There isn’t any way to pre-reserve or verify names

But we can cooperate to register good ones

No first dibs :smiley:

White hats racing against squatters

Testnet will give people a chance to see what has been built and will also allow more contributors to easily contribute and do security testing because the code is published and everyone can be on the same page

Testnet also allows 2nd and third layer developers to see how the protocol works and build and test apps

Since the network was built first with ravencoin we already have a massive head start when mainnet is launched (versus if the network genesis and the asset layer were launched together)

This means that since racencoin already has tons of users, community members and interested parties the usability of the asset layer capabilities increases

There are a lot of us in the community who can test and build on this protocol

So - when mainnet launches :rocket: there will be a lot of people ready to jumpstart that network and build on it

I predict a lot of asset names reserved right away (it will be like domain registration races / land grab)

When mainnet is launched people will be able to immediately create real assets which will be verified by the ravencoin blockchain


29 July 2018 - Discord 2

We had mini raven sculptures hidden all around the Satoshi Roundtable

14 July 2018 - Discord 2

Ravencoin as a real open source & fair launched project will never have the captive marketing budget of an ICO — but those projects will never have the tech depth or scalability that the Ravencoin protocol has.

Icos as we know them will not be as big as securities tokens

12 July 2018 - Discord 2

The dlr is a different thing - it’s a specific tool to help crypto interface with existing wall st touting systems

Aside from this Tzero is also an exchange which will trade security tokens

11 July 2018 - Discord 2

Just one solid exchange would be very relevant

Rvn took a path more like BTC or ltc

I think an exchange will happen

There actually is a lot of raven marketing - it’s all pretty much done by volunteer community members bits be trippin etc

I think Tzero hasn’t announced exactly how they will make listing decisions — there will be lots of factors

Rvn could be appealing to any exchange because it has high interest and volume and is not a security and also its code base is based on Bitcoin so well understood

Rvn is an especially natural fit for exchanges focusing on securities tokens

11 July 2018 - Discord 2

From @Chatturga

Hello, everyone. I bring exciting news about the asset layer! Assuming that everything goes smoothly, the binaries to test the asset layer on testnet will be available for download on July 30th. Additionally, the target date for mainnet release has been tentatively set for October 31st. These dates give the community time to find any issues and for PR's to be processed - with October 31st also being the 1 year anniversary of the first Medium article about Ravencoin.

3 July 2018 - Discord 2

Have I mentioned that this is Game of Thrones?

GAME OF THRONES!

This space is very treacherous and risky - there is a ton of uncertainty.

A coin claiming they will “beat Bitcoin” is not credible — neither is it credible to say Bitcoin has a 100% chance of being both global money and the rails for all tokens with zero exceptions.

There are a few possible outcomes:

1) Bitcoin becomes the only chain, all projects become sidechains on Bitcoin - RVN and ALL other coins/ projects die completely (possible but unlikely / not certain enough to bet on 100%)

2) Bitcoin dies, other coin or coins / projects serve that need (unlikely)

3) Bitcoin becomes important money and important chain for tokens but other projects survive and serve large or niche markets 3a Raven is one of these survivors 3b it isn’t (This is the most likely scenario imho of the 3 — even if I felt an 80% chance of option 1 then it would still be prudent to support other coins in case BTC fails or in case any can develop a niche which serves one area better than BTC)

So if option 3 occurred and raven survived then it could be used in even a “small” niche of the possibly deca trillion dollar token market and end up being very important.

Cross chain atomic swaps and lots of other things will make cooperation between projects make sense — LTC is a good example - the project has never tried to be at odds with Bitcoin.

Bitcoin was always going to do tokens — that a HQ co like Blockstream is working on this is exciting and validated the entire idea. Just a month ago all the best “experts” were saying that tokens couldn’t be put on Bitcoin or a fork of Bitcoin — this is specifically why I always used Bitcoin not raven in the periscope video examples on security tokens.

When we did these demos everyone laughed — well now the smartest devs in the space are doing what we’ve been working on for a while as well (Blockstream has worked on this a long time too)

It will be great if both Bitcoin and Raven serve markets in tokens successfully - there are certainly plenty of ways that can work — I also think other projects like ada and eos will have a good chance of surviving and several platforms will thrive for different reasons.

Anyway — being that this is Game of Thrones and in the grand timeline of global money and blockchains - we are early in season 1 ... it’s a good time to be supportive of all projects and focus on building great tech rather than “beating” someone. Also — most importantly — Blockstream is NOT a competitor of Raven - Blockstream is a company with investors and some top devs and products etc. - Ravencoin is an idea and some code / software which generates a scare digital asset.

So back to the Blockstream announcement

...If this is Game of Thrones here we are over at Raven Tower okay — and Adam Back is like the Maester from Fort Block — he just moved in and says he wants to fight white walkers with the weapon he’s been working on —

Okay I could go on :joy:...

But seriously, Blockstream is not an enemy to this project - that’s absurd - they are awesome people and high quality cypherpunks and some of the smartest people in the industry.

The “competitor” isn’t Blockstream it’s Bitcoin (for tokens!) — obviously Bitcoin is the strongest chain and it’s very unlikely raven would replace it — that was never the goal, point or idea (at least from my personal POV or imho)- the better competitor is ETH who actually has serious weaknesses.

Goal as I’ve always personally seen it is to work on this specific use case on a PROTOCOL level to see if it develops advantages overall — it has had some since day one —

Just build good stuff and keep focusing

If you want to attack someone ETH is a better target but even those folks are pretty cool — better to hope the rising tide lifts all boats!!

Yeah no one should care so much what I say — centralized authorities are bad

I love this coin and project and community — this is why I’ve given what I think is a fair share of free work to the project — but my activity shouldn’t be so relevant (and neither should anyone else’s)

I don’t see it as competition and even if so it would be silly to claim this chain is stronger than Bitcoin - imho far smarter way to look at things is the way LTC and to a lesser extent cardano does: we are all in the same ecosystem

I’ve supported raven as best I can and will continue to — I’ve done about 15 speeches and a hundred tweets and 12 interviews and I’ve received death threats and nearly daily criticisms and accusations of being a scammer / pumper because of being such a vocal supporter — I’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of my own money on support of raven — I’ve taken time from my family to fly to meet devs and I’ve spent hundreds of hours on everything from writing and research to design to chatting in forums or answering questions.

I receive zero pay and zero special coins or bonus for any work or commentary I do on Raven — Every hour I spend on Raven is uncompensated and I have to skip other paying work to do -

If people think it’s not enough or can do better then by all means hopefully they can step up and be spokespeople also — I offered to help others do so a while ago & will make more ppt etc when I can

Asset layer test net should be out in July

Blockstream moving into this is great news for the overall ecosystem

It’s a $40 trillion market

Personally I see it as very different

Raven is open source If you want to compete with a company you can Or use the code and software how you choose

2nd July 2018 - Discord 2

I have over 150,000 social media followers and announced Raven to over 2000 conference attendees at crypto conferences including Miami BTC and Texas Bitcoin Conference It was posted by many others aside from me and retweeted and reposted by many others

We had 4500 miners within a week and the network grew so fast that solo mining and cpu rigs were obsolete within two weeks

To claim that no one was on the network and that some secret miner dominated the mining is preposterous and easily provably false

In the very earliest days the network was widely distributed — the three largest miners (Overstock / Medici and three parties I don’t know who they are) each never reached more than 10-15% of hash power —- and that was only for a short few weeks or so in the earlier days

Since then the math can easily show that for anyone to have significant network power they would have to spend a significant amount on GPU rigs — the math & metrics behind this are trivial for anyone with a basic understanding of mining and crypto

It is simply impossible to have had a special advantage on the launch - all anyone could have possibly done is what early miners did:: take a big risk on early equipment-/

No one had any advantage whatsoever and there was absolutely no premine or set aside or insta mine at all

This is what is great about this tech - a blockchain is provable I guess at the ravencoin annual meeting we can ask early miners to raise hands

Blockstream is a company — raven is a protocol

We are not competing with Blockstream

Older Posts

Fenton Files: April 2018 - June 2018

Fenton Files: start - March 2018

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